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  1. #61
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    Best signing so far this winter, Randy St Clair to handle pitchers at Las Vegas.
    " You seek Yoda!

  2. #62
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    1. No member of any sports team is ever going to admit they are not in a position to win. Everyone clearly knows that they are not going to be competitive.

    2. Cody Ross and a couple of relievers don't hinder our future. However they don't do much for our present either so why even bother. Cody Ross doesn't do anything other than give people a reason to say hey we have Cody Ross and will win 3 more game this year.

    3. I never said we are going from 70 wins to 90 wins. What is supposed to happen next year is this.

    -Santana comes off the books

    -Wheeler and Harvey are both in the rotation and improving

    -Our offensive core would consist of David Wright, Ike Davis, and Travis d'Arnaud

    -We wouldn't have any payroll commitments outside of 3 players (Wright, Niese, and Bay)

    4. I have already told you that your theory of moving payroll to 2014 is complete BS. I don't know what spread sheet you used, but it is wrong.

    -David Wright only deferred 3 million dollars.

    -We don't know how Jason Bays buy out is structured, but we have been told we don't save much money this year which would mean we would have to be saving more going forward.

    -Jon Niese gets bumped up to 5 million a year.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/co...new-york-mets/

    You can see for yourself. We are not pushing any money to next year yet you keep telling everyone we are and using it as another reason to complain.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    1. No member of any sports team is ever going to admit they are not in a position to win. Everyone clearly knows that they are not going to be competitive.


    But you said our GM had told you the exact opposite. He hasn't he's actually said the exact opposite of what you said he said...

    2. Cody Ross and a couple of relievers don't hinder our future. However they don't do much for our present either so why even bother. Cody Ross doesn't do anything other than give people a reason to say hey we have Cody Ross and will win 3 more game this year.

    Exactly, and they can help down the line. But miraculously the players we sign will add 10-15 wins? players who are likely to be about as good as Ross at best. Not quite sure how you have managed to see into the future and accurately predict just how many wins Ross gives us, whilst at the same time crunching every single number to ensure that it is a accurate and that RRoss gave us wins on his own. Let's face it the old 'adding so many wins' routine is just lazy hyperbole.

    3. I never said we are going from 70 wins to 90 wins. What is supposed to happen next year is this.

    -Santana comes off the books

    -Wheeler and Harvey are both in the rotation and improving

    -Our offensive core would consist of David Wright, Ike Davis, and Travis d'Arnaud

    -We wouldn't have any payroll commitments outside of 3 players (Wright, Niese, and Bay)

    4. I have already told you that your theory of moving payroll to 2014 is complete BS. I don't know what spread sheet you used, but it is wrong.

    -David Wright only deferred 3 million dollars.

    -We don't know how Jason Bays buy out is structured, but we have been told we don't save much money this year which would mean we would have to be saving more going forward.

    -Jon Niese gets bumped up to 5 million a year.

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/co...new-york-mets/

    You can see for yourself. We are not pushing any money to next year yet you keep telling everyone we are and using it as another reason to complain.

    There's $8.5M just on Bay and JS, and Wright was due to make more than $11M this year, so again that's money deferred with the sole intention of spending less in 2013.

    7-8 players have come off the books, and they still won't spend a dime, why is Johan's deal making that much difference?

    Why would a team this i going nowhere this year, defer a single dollar over to 2014 when it's supposed to be spending and contending?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    There's $8.5M just on Bay and JS, and Wright was due to make more than $11M this year, so again that's money deferred with the sole intention of spending less in 2013.

    7-8 players have come off the books, and they still won't spend a dime, why is Johan's deal making that much difference?

    Why would a team this i going nowhere this year, defer a single dollar over to 2014 when it's supposed to be spending and contending?
    Next year Johan Santana has a 5.5 million dollar buy out. Bay had a 3 million dollar buy out, but with the buy out this year and the money deferred we have no idea what his breakdown is. However we were told from people covering it that we won't be saving much this year. That the deal was done just to get him off the team.

    Will you please look at the break down from Cots regarding Wrights contract. David Wright only deferred 3 million dollars for this year and the remaining 2.5 million is spread out through the remainder of the contract.

    So if you consider an extra 3 million moved to next year all this money.... then you are crazy. Simple as that.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    I am not talking about him going into this year and having a down year. If he sat down with SA and he didn't agree with the direction of the team then he could have been traded this off season and someone would have signed him to an extension after the trade.

    Are you serious with the relocate question? You have been saying DW is all about the money like most athletes. Well if another team was going to give him that type of money your now saying he wouldn't relocate for the money?
    It's always a risk to leave $150 million on the table. It's easy for you to assume that someone else would have picked up the tab. But if you're on the receiving end of that cash, you wouldnt feel so nonchalant about it.

    Bird in the hand as it were.

    Also, I'm curious as to what conditions would have prompted Wright to walk. At the time of the signing, Dickey wasn't traded yet. So presumably, Wright would have liked the plan if Dickey were traded or kept. Remember, there's no way Wright could have known for certain we were getting d'Arnaud and Snydergaard (Syndergarrd?).

    And it wasn't like Sandy was actively acquiring other players either.

    Can't help but think Sandy's plan got that much better in Wright's eyes after the $150 million offer.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-rock-man View Post
    Best signing so far this winter, Randy St Clair to handle pitchers at Las Vegas.
    Is this sarcasm (lol), or is St Clair really good? Inquiring minds want to know.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It's always a risk to leave $150 million on the table. It's easy for you to assume that someone else would have picked up the tab. But if you're on the receiving end of that cash, you wouldnt feel so nonchalant about it.

    Bird in the hand as it were.

    Also, I'm curious as to what conditions would have prompted Wright to walk. At the time of the signing, Dickey wasn't traded yet. So presumably, Wright would have liked the plan if Dickey were traded or kept. Remember, there's no way Wright could have known for certain we were getting d'Arnaud and Snydergaard (Syndergarrd?).

    And it wasn't like Sandy was actively acquiring other players either.

    Can't help but think Sandy's plan got that much better in Wright's eyes after the $150 million offer.
    Wright knew Dickey was getting traded or at least knew there was serious talks about it. Remember David Wright signed his deal on November 30th.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/met...ex-anthopoulos

    Toronto approached Mets at the GM meetings in early November about Dickey, but there was no substantive trade discussion until a week before the winter meetings. At the winter meetings, Anthopoulos thought the deal was dead.
    Travis d'Arnaud had been part of trade proposal for 10 days. Alderson did not accept until Noah Syndergaard was included. Anthopoulos said he understood, because when he was shopping Roy Halladay years ago, he wanted multiple blue-chip prospects back, not solely relying on one primary prospect.
    So if we go by what both GM's said trade talks started in early November for Dickey, but didn't get substantial until a week before the Winter Meetings. The winter meetings were from December 3rd to December 6th. 7 days before the winter meetings (Nov. 26) they had substantial trade talks. That also happens to be 4 days before David Wright signed his contract.

    So unless he was completely kept in the dark David Wright knew pretty much the entire month of November that they were shopping Dickey.
    Last edited by metsbulls1025; 01-04-2013 at 10:58 AM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    Wright knew Dickey was getting traded or at least knew there was serious talks about it. Remember David Wright signed his deal on November 30th.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/met...ex-anthopoulos





    So if we go by what both GM's said trade talks started in early November for Dickey, but didn't get substantial until a week before the Winter Meetings. The winter meetings were from December 3rd to December 6th. 7 days before the winter meetings (Nov. 26) they had substantial trade talks. That also happens to be 4 days before David Wright signed his contract.

    So unless he was completely kept in the dark David Wright knew pretty much the entire month of November that they were shopping Dickey.
    Still, the deal could have fallen through. But let's say for argument's sake that the plan was to hold on to Dickey and try to re-sign him.

    Do you honestly think Wright would have said, "I disagree with the direction of this team. Keep your $150 million and trade me?"

    My point was that once the Mets offered $150 million, there was little they could have done wrong with regards to the team's direction that would have made Wright want to go elsewhere.

    It's interesting to note that weeks earlier when the offer was substantially lower than it ultimately would be, Wright wasn't as happy with "the team's direction."
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  9. #69
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    Weight never said he was unhappy with the teams direction. He was unhappy that the news leaked to the media about his contract talks.

    No there is no doubt in my mind Wright wanted his money. However if he was truly unhappy with his situation here he could have asked for a trade and got the same amount of money elsewhere and started winning much quicker.

    And we can use common sense to understand how much Wright would have made on the open market. The same rules would have applied with the Dickey trade. The team trading with the Mets would have had 72 hours to lock Wright up long term. He would have gotten paid regardless.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Still, the deal could have fallen through. But let's say for argument's sake that the plan was to hold on to Dickey and try to re-sign him.

    Do you honestly think Wright would have said, "I disagree with the direction of this team. Keep your $150 million and trade me?"

    My point was that once the Mets offered $150 million, there was little they could have done wrong with regards to the team's direction that would have made Wright want to go elsewhere.

    It's interesting to note that weeks earlier when the offer was substantially lower than it ultimately would be, Wright wasn't as happy with "the team's direction."
    Was David quoted? I would love to see that quote.

    I will say this about David, he never said anything to the media in regards to his negotiations.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    Weight never said he was unhappy with the teams direction. He was unhappy that the news leaked to the media about his contract talks.

    No there is no doubt in my mind Wright wanted his money. However if he was truly unhappy with his situation here he could have asked for a trade and got the same amount of money elsewhere and started winning much quicker.

    And we can use common sense to understand how much Wright would have made on the open market. The same rules would have applied with the Dickey trade. The team trading with the Mets would have had 72 hours to lock Wright up long term. He would have gotten paid regardless.
    Was it really leaked? Or was the NY Media doing it's unnamed source BS.

    The only thing the Mets FO leaked was the offer for Dickey, and they did that to increase his trade value. The Dickey trade was complete before we heard who he was traded for. Actually he agreed to a contract with the BJs on Sunday, and neither team released the terms of the deal to the media prior to that.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Was it really leaked? Or was the NY Media doing it's unnamed source BS.

    The only thing the Mets FO leaked was the offer for Dickey, and they did that to increase his trade value. The Dickey trade was complete before we heard who he was traded for. Actually he agreed to a contract with the BJs on Sunday, and neither team released the terms of the deal to the media prior to that.
    It was unnamed stuff. I was just posting what Weights camp felt. But as far as not liking the direction he never said that as far as I know.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Listen you're entitled to keep giving the Mets and SA free passes for failing to improve the team, I won't though. If you're more comfortable with the notion that everything is hunky dory and we're on the right track and we could not be doing anything better then great.

    There's no need to keep exaggerating either, just because I refuse to toe the party line.

    The notion that a 74 win team could not in any way have improved itself this Winter is one that is not even worth consideration, and that's the basic premise of all the people who have been totally entranced by Sandy Alderson.

    Why would I come up with alternative short plan, when the FO doesn't have one? they have just punted next season, they have thrown it on the bonfire. But that's fine with you all you Alderson junkies...

    I have been hearing that this teams fortunes would improve every year since at least and including 2011, and what's happened? just more wasted years.
    The plan is to win for the future are not 2013, and they've done a great job in putting the Mets in a great position for the future.

    Like I said before, don't trash one's opinion and beliefs when you can't come up with one yourself.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    I just block him. If I care to read it I can just view the post. If I didn't block him or Coupon I probably would end up getting banned because I was getting fed up with the nonsense.

    They shouldn't be allowed to derail threads with their money and conspiracy talk. I am so sick of talking about money and would rather talk about the team we have.

    If people are this mad that they have to ruin an entire forum than just go root for another team.
    I didn't know you could block someone, sorry, relative newbie. Good, how do I do it. Thnks.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    Wright never said he was unhappy with the teams direction. He was unhappy that the news leaked to the media about his contract talks.

    No there is no doubt in my mind Wright wanted his money. However if he was truly unhappy with his situation here he could have asked for a trade and got the same amount of money elsewhere and started winning much quicker.

    And we can use common sense to understand how much Wright would have made on the open market. The same rules would have applied with the Dickey trade. The team trading with the Mets would have had 72 hours to lock Wright up long term. He would have gotten paid regardless.
    Well, that happens to be true. But that didn't fit my narrative as well
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

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