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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Well then i would have to strongly disagree.

    A winning team is composed of many elements that includes home grown players but not solely home grown players.

    The Cardinals and Giants had a lot of home grown pieces but they also made quality FA acquisitions and good trades to win the last 3 WS.


    Exactly.

    Ok, let me throw something out there, what if the prospects don't pan out quite as we hope next year, say TDA for ex.gets hurt, or MH regresses a little but, or Wheeler comes up and isn't quite what he'd hoped right away, what if Ike Davis has a poor season?

    Are we all gonna be happy without punting 2014 too?

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Go back and read clay's answer to FOC.
    Well it's probably an argument out of context then.

    A winning team is composed of many elements that includes home grown players but not solely home grown players.

    The Cardinals and Giants had a lot of home grown pieces but they also made quality FA acquisitions, had significant payrolls and more often than not made good trades to win the last 3 WS.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-10-2013 at 05:43 AM.

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Exactly.

    Ok, let me throw something out there, what if the prospects don't pan out quite as we hope next year, say TDA for ex.gets hurt, or MH regresses a little but, or Wheeler comes up and isn't quite what he'd hoped right away, what if Ike Davis has a poor season?

    Are we all gonna be happy without punting 2014 too?
    Like i said in another thread they have to give these kids help if they plan on committing to them being the long term future of this team.

    If we have believe we have two top of the rotation starters and a perennial all star catcher (even if they have bad seasons) we have to surround them with the proper players to support them.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Like i said in another thread they have to give these kids help if they plan on committing to them being the long term future of this team.

    If we have believe we have two top of the rotation starters and a perennial all star catcher (even if they have bad seasons) we have to surround them with the proper players to support them.

    There really are zero excuses. Obv, some will find some, but no-one takes them seriously.

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Exactly.

    Ok, let me throw something out there, what if the prospects don't pan out quite as we hope next year, say TDA for ex.gets hurt, or MH regresses a little but, or Wheeler comes up and isn't quite what he'd hoped right away, what if Ike Davis has a poor season?

    Are we all gonna be happy without punting 2014 too?
    They may not.

    What if Dwight and Darryl hadn't panned out? What if Matt Cain and Buster Posey hadn't panned out? What if Derek Jeter and Bernie Williams hadn't pan out. What if David Price and Evan Longoria never panned out? What if Chipper Jones and John Smoltz never panned out? What if Cole Hamels and Chase Utley never panned out?

    I guess organizations should never try to build a core of players from within. We all know the formula, but there are risks and not all players pan out. While Dwight and Darryl did for the Mets, Billy Beane, Shawn Abner and many others did not. Minor league depth is the key.

    Will "we be happy" if TdA and Wheeler, etc fail? My happiness isn't dependent upon a baseball team. Obviously I follow the team every day, but they never affect me negatively or my happiness.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    There really are zero excuses. Obv, some will find some, but no-one takes them seriously.
    Well they didn't wait till Wright and Reyes became superstars before they added Beltran and Pedro in 2005.

    So the hope is they will do the same here (obviously it wont be those caliber of players but there is still help out there in 2014 via FA)

    Like i said and as we know rebuilding a team is a incrementally slow building block type of process, it's about getting through this season with these kids hoping they produce and continue to develop at the major league level, then making roster upgrades over the next 2-3 years in hopes we can build a winner by 2014 or 2015.

    As long as that's the continued direction and we get better along the way then i don't care about 70 wins in 2013.

    If this team was still where it was in 2010 and 2011 with significantly less minor league depth and a bloated payroll with no way to get from under it then yeah i would be a lot more aggravated about the continued losing.
    Last edited by metswon69; 01-10-2013 at 06:30 AM.

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    I am talking about right now...
    Coulda fooled me with words like "cyclical" and "for years".
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Are we all gonna be happy without punting 2014 too?
    Are you going to be happy with going for it on 4th down next year too? That doesn't work either.

    We're not punting if there's nobody there to put us over the top. Especially when you consider that we have to pay these guys for more than just 2013.

    Thats why the Mets are stuck where they are now- because they wasted 2011-12 and 13 money on guys like Santana and Bay that haven't contributed in years.
    The Michigan team bus was stuck outside Notre Dame stadium for hours after somebody painted a 20 yard line in the parking lot

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    You were right first time FOC. Don't be subdued by baseball communism.
    Teams have been successful with low payrolls. But they are few and far between. I was wrong to speak in absolutes.

    I agree, a successful team should be a combination of home grown youngsters, acquired veterans via trades, and free agent signings.

    But there is more than one way up the mountain.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandman View Post
    Coulda fooled me with words like "cyclical" and "for years".

    Are you going to be happy with going for it on 4th down next year too? That doesn't work either.

    We're not punting if there's nobody there to put us over the top. Especially when you consider that we have to pay these guys for more than just 2013.

    Thats why the Mets are stuck where they are now- because they wasted 2011-12 and 13 money on guys like Santana and Bay that haven't contributed in years.
    I didn't use cyclical or for years...

    We're stuck where we are now, because we have no money to spend despite dropping $70M off payroll.

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Teams have been successful with low payrolls. But they are few and far between. I was wrong to speak in absolutes.

    I agree, a successful team should be a combination of home grown youngsters, acquired veterans via trades, and free agent signings.

    But there is more than one way up the mountain.
    Clay spoke in absolutes, you were right, he was wrong. Name me one WS team built entirely from home-grown talent.?

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Show the last team to win the WS entirely with home-grown talent.
    Why are you putting conditions on the topic at hand.

    The Rays are a team that don't spend money are a consistent winner.
    The Reds, and Braves are two other examples.

    You don't need a 140+ payroll to be a winner.

    You need good scouting, and good player development among other things.


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  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Clay spoke in absolutes, you were right, he was wrong. Name me one WS team built entirely from home-grown talent.?
    Excuse, I spoke in absolutes?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  13. #208
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    Sandy is such a spin-artist, it makes me dizzy.

    Months ago he says to expect major changes to the roster. Now there's all these excuses...

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/met...ible-in-future

    “We came into the winter meetings with 38 or 37 [players on the 40-man roster]. We understood we had limited roster space after we added, I think, six or seven players to our roster before the Rule 5 draft,” Alderson said. “We’ve been careful to protect those spots. But I would suspect one or two of them will be used by the time we get to spring training.”

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoicSentry View Post
    Sandy is such a spin-artist, it makes me dizzy.

    Months ago he says to expect major changes to the roster. Now there's all these excuses...

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/met...ible-in-future
    When exactly did he claim there would be "major changes" to the roster? Serious question, you may be right, I just don't remember that.
    "We're snakebitten, baby." --Fred Wilpon

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ5382 View Post
    When exactly did he claim there would be "major changes" to the roster? Serious question, you may be right, I just don't remember that.
    http://metsblog.com/metsblog/alderso...ctive-players/

    Sorry, he didn't use those exact words.

    He said "We need an infusion of productive players," and made several comments about expecting the roster to look much different on opening day 2014.

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