2013 PSD Mets Forum #1 Mets Prospect

[Ktulu]

I'll go with D'Anaurd. Although the first 3 you put up are all really good spects

[Claymation]

Harvey's curve is his worst pitch from my eyes and based on pitch values. His change has developed into an above average weapon, though not plus. I agree that his fastball and slider are plus-plus pitches.

I haven't heard much about Wheeler's change and from what I've seen he hasn't thrown it much.

I like his breaking balls a lot though. They say his fastball has more downward tilt, so maybe more ground balls will come from Wheeler as opposed to Harvey.

I feel that Harvey's curve has plus potential, he snapped a few off against the Phillies that made me smile from ear to ear.

I think you are right that his performance in the Majors should carry significant weight. When I saw Wheeler earlier in the season he had the looks of 4 polished pitches. His cutter just handcuffed a left handed hitters.

This is the reason I wanted Harvey to be included in our top 30 prospects. It far more entertaining discussing the positives and negatives of elite prospects than discussing "How cheap the Wilpons are" or "Sandy is lying to us" topics day in and day out.

[Marty Mcfly]

Wheeler - no question.

[metsfaninSTL]

I think I voted for Harvey last year, but going with Wheeler this time.

[YoungStuna28]

I feel that Harvey's curve has plus potential, he snapped a few off against the Phillies that made me smile from ear to ear.

I think you are right that his performance in the Majors should carry significant weight. When I saw Wheeler earlier in the season he had the looks of 4 polished pitches. His cutter just handcuffed a left handed hitters.

This is the reason I wanted Harvey to be included in our top 30 prospects. It far more entertaining discussing the positives and negatives of elite prospects than discussing "How cheap the Wilpons are" or "Sandy is lying to us" topics day in and day out.

I agree 100%.

I actually like Harvey's curve because it gives him another speed, it has great two plane break, but when he hangs it, it gets hammered.

His slider is just filthy when he locates it, and the bottom drops out of his change against both lefties and righties. He has all the tools to be an ace, and I think he has the smarts, drive, and determination to make it happen.

I really need to see more of Wheeler before judging though, I love his fastball, curve, and slider/cutter. I just think the change has ways to go as his overall command. His upside is tremendous though and I look forward to his progress.

For now, I give the edge to the guy who has proven to dominate major league hitters in his first taste of action.

[BradHolt4CYoung]

What I saw last year from Harvey in the bigs is what I hope Wheeler will become. Since Harvey has already done it, unlike Wheeler, I give Harvey the edge. Wheeler has a higher ceiling though, so it's real close.

[YoungStuna28]

I didn't know you could have a higher ceiling than an ace.

[BradHolt4CYoung]

I didn't know you could have a higher ceiling than an ace.

Most reports I have read say Harvey's realistic ceiling is a #2 starter, while Wheeler can be someone who can lead a staff.

[YoungStuna28]

Most reports I have read say Harvey's realistic ceiling is a #2 starter, while Wheeler can be someone who can lead a staff.

Most reports mean nothing once you reach the majors.

[BradHolt4CYoung]

Most reports mean nothing once you reach the majors.

So then your basing Harveys ranking entirely off 10 starts he made last season in the bigs?

We should have signed Francisco Liriano. He was even better than Harvey his rookie year. Oh wait 6 years later and his career ERA is 4.40

[YoungStuna28]

So then your basing Harveys ranking entirely off 10 starts he made last season in the bigs?

We should have signed Francisco Liriano. He was even better than Harvey his rookie year. Oh wait 6 years later and his career ERA is 4.40

He had solid reports before coming up to the big leagues, but the reports for the most part underrated Harvey.

Liriano threw too many sliders which explains the increase in walks and lack of effectiveness, terrible comparison.

[BradHolt4CYoung]

He had solid reports before coming up to the big leagues, but the reports for the most part underrated Harvey.

Liriano threw too many sliders which explains the increase in walks and lack of effectiveness, terrible comparison.

Not a terrible comparison. They might have different pitch repertoires but Liriano is one of a bunch of pitchers I can bring up who come out firing their first year than fade away the years following. Im sure everyone Ill bring up though will have a reason as to why they declined and how Harvey is immune to it.

I just love how you can try to diminish the "expert" reports you read on Harvey after a handful of successful big league starts, but then half of your posts are quotes from these same prospect evaluators and how much of a gem player X is because of a scouting report.

[YoungStuna28]

Not a terrible comparison. They might have different pitch repertoires but Liriano is one of a bunch of pitchers I can bring up who come out firing their first year than fade away the years following. Im sure everyone Ill bring up though will have a reason as to why they declined and how Harvey is immune to it.

I just love how you can try to diminish the "expert" reports you read on Harvey after a handful of successful big league starts, but then half of your posts are quotes from these same prospect evaluators and how much of a gem player X is because of a scouting report.

You aren't going to get away with being a major league starter throwing 50% fastballs unless you throw a cutter, or have 3 secondary pitches. Liriano has 2 secondary pitches and throws his slider way too much.

The reason why Harvey isn't as touted as Wheeler is because he wasn't highly thought of when he was first drafted. He was a college arm and 7th pick that missed the top 100 on a lot of lists.

Wheeler is a little younger so he's viewed with a higher upside, but in reality, his stuff and Harvey's stuff are very similar. If Harvey shows the 4-pitch mix he showed in 2012 in 2013, he should have similar results.

Wheeler's command and change-up is behind Harvey's, so we'll see.

[BradHolt4CYoung]

You aren't going to get away with being a major league starter throwing 50% fastballs unless you throw a cutter, or have 3 secondary pitches. Liriano has 2 secondary pitches and throws his slider way too much.

The reason why Harvey isn't as touted as Wheeler is because he wasn't highly thought of when he was first drafted. He was a college arm and 7th pick that missed the top 100 on a lot of lists.

Wheeler is a little younger so he's viewed with a higher upside, but in reality, his stuff and Harvey's stuff are very similar. If Harvey shows the 4-pitch mix he showed in 2012 in 2013, he should have similar results.

Wheeler's command and change-up is behind Harvey's, so we'll see.

Your acting like Harvey was so slighted in all these rankings.

John Sickles rated Harvey #35 in his top 120 prospects lists for 2012....Wheeler was right behind him at 36.

Baseball Prospectus Kevin Goldstein rated Harvey #25 in his top 101 prospects for 2012 ahead of Wheeler who came in at 30.

So it's pretty obvious that the love for Wheeler is not all due to his pre draft reports, because these are guys who didnt fall for it and I sure there are more....probably more to do with his improvement since becoming a Met.

[macattack]

I chose wheeler though its prolly more of a toss up between the 2 pitchers. I said this in another thread but imo Santana being there is going to help these 2 so much, especially with their change. SP is going to befun to watch.