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  1. #1
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    Could Unit 2 Step Up Full Time?!

    Question To Ask If Jazz Organization/Coach:
    If our bench was given the same amount of responsibility and time would they put up as big of defense, and win more consistently then our starters(and out perform them)? And if the starters were given the same amount time and responsibility as the bench(15-20 minutes), could they put up just as good of numbers as their starter numbers and get more wins?


    I want to prove or disprove that our 2nd unit is ready to take the reins now(with more minutes or at starter), and that they will give them a better chance at making playoffs by getting more wins.

    My quick player recaps on why(I had more, but saved them for later), You can skip to my case below at the **:

    Kanter when he started in his one game(without Al), he scored 18 points and 8 rebounds in 35 minutes and we won(he also put these numbers with 15 min). Kanter plays a true Center and does his job well, and works great with his squad no matter who it is. He also has learned valuable skills at making his own plays. I believe everyone plays better around him than with Al. Putting him at starter alone would change everything, mainly the attitude and mood/pace

    I believe when Kanter, Favors and Hayward are on the same unit, it just reeks with potential, I mean it out beat the statistically #1 bench and put a 19 point lead on the #1 team in the league! If this isn't enough to justify them being starters(or 30 mins at bench), than I don't know what will be(especially as long as our current starters are treated like there Kobe or something!)


    **My case:
    Jazz basketball starts on defense. If this is a fact, then having offensive heavy guys doesn't matter if they can't be their defensibly(it slows our pace). I mean team players on offense is way more important than a guy who can attempt 10-15 shots and put big numbers up. That doesn't matter. This is about lesser attempts and better shots by working the ball as a team(as far as offensive, but starts by being good on defense).

    More misses with our low offensive rebounds means more stops for them, meaning more potential fast breaks, and easy points. See what I mean!
    With our Center shooting the most shots(instead of rebounding them), our offensive rebounds are bottom of league, which crashes our offensive side badly, since the other team can bring momentum. Like you can see Al made 20 points, but did it show the 5 he missed in 5 minutes, giving teams 10-2 runs and momentum to overtake the game.

    Honestly I rather not have Al's numbers, because all his misses, non-rebounding and non-assists means more points for the other team(not to mention fouls and TO's). His big numbers is not as important because they are getting the rebounds and the quick runs. When Al is shooting, the others might as well run down the court to set the defense cause they ain't getting rebounds!**

    Starters or More Minutes(like 20-30 a night):
    *Favors
    *Hayward
    *Kanter
    *Burks/Foye
    *Mo

    The rest would cycle in as needed. Because these 5 guys can handle anything and win. The others need to be put in to do certain things when we actually need them to do it(which is mainly defensive stuff, like keeping our lead or staying with in enough points so our better unit can catch up easier). Foye and Marvin would work better if they could get there 10 points a night from the bench, instead of letting the other team rack points up, while we wait around for them to attempt so many, just so they "might" make more than their average.
    All great things come to an end...even in basketball -Me

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanStorm View Post
    Question To Ask If Jazz Organization/Coach:
    If our bench was given the same amount of responsibility and time would they put up as big of defense, and win more consistently then our starters(and out perform them)? And if the starters were given the same amount time and responsibility as the bench(15-20 minutes), could they put up just as good of numbers as their starter numbers and get more wins?


    I want to prove or disprove that our 2nd unit is ready to take the reins now(with more minutes or at starter), and that they will give them a better chance at making playoffs by getting more wins.

    My quick player recaps on why(I had more, but saved them for later), You can skip to my case below at the **:

    Kanter when he started in his one game(without Al), he scored 18 points and 8 rebounds in 35 minutes and we won(he also put these numbers with 15 min). Kanter plays a true Center and does his job well, and works great with his squad no matter who it is. He also has learned valuable skills at making his own plays. I believe everyone plays better around him than with Al. Putting him at starter alone would change everything, mainly the attitude and mood/pace

    I believe when Kanter, Favors and Hayward are on the same unit, it just reeks with potential, I mean it out beat the statistically #1 bench and put a 19 point lead on the #1 team in the league! If this isn't enough to justify them being starters(or 30 mins at bench), than I don't know what will be(especially as long as our current starters are treated like there Kobe or something!)


    **My case:
    Jazz basketball starts on defense. If this is a fact, then having offensive heavy guys doesn't matter if they can't be their defensibly(it slows our pace). I mean team players on offense is way more important than a guy who can attempt 10-15 shots and put big numbers up. That doesn't matter. This is about lesser attempts and better shots by working the ball as a team(as far as offensive, but starts by being good on defense).

    More misses with our low offensive rebounds means more stops for them, meaning more potential fast breaks, and easy points. See what I mean!
    With our Center shooting the most shots(instead of rebounding them), our offensive rebounds are bottom of league, which crashes our offensive side badly, since the other team can bring momentum. Like you can see Al made 20 points, but did it show the 5 he missed in 5 minutes, giving teams 10-2 runs and momentum to overtake the game.

    Honestly I rather not have Al's numbers, because all his misses, non-rebounding and non-assists means more points for the other team(not to mention fouls and TO's). His big numbers is not as important because they are getting the rebounds and the quick runs. When Al is shooting, the others might as well run down the court to set the defense cause they ain't getting rebounds!**

    Starters or More Minutes(like 20-30 a night):
    *Favors
    *Hayward
    *Kanter
    *Burks/Foye
    *Mo

    The rest would cycle in as needed. Because these 5 guys can handle anything and win. The others need to be put in to do certain things when we actually need them to do it(which is mainly defensive stuff, like keeping our lead or staying with in enough points so our better unit can catch up easier). Foye and Marvin would work better if they could get there 10 points a night from the bench, instead of letting the other team rack points up, while we wait around for them to attempt so many, just so they "might" make more than their average.
    All of the bold is just wrong. we are an great offensive rebounding team
    http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/tea...offReboundRate
    we are a terrible defensive rebounding team because none of gaurds rebound. none of them and our small forwards(marvin, hayward, carroll) are all below league average as well

    second while al doesn't offensive rebound well he is one of the best defensive rebounding bigs in the game and is per 36 our best rebounder overall. In fact at this point kanter per 36 rebounding stats aren't that great. Second he is half the black hole you guys make him out to be. he has is an average passing to above average passing center at this point and finally he is like the best ever at not turning the ball over.

    If you are going to criticize al and his offense if he could draw a few more fouls a game he would be so much more valuable. As it stands his ppp isn't that great because he simply doesn't draw fouls and you just have to for a big man

  3. #3
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    I completely agree. I was trying to figure out how to say the same thing, but you have put it perfectly. All the small markets struggled and grew together. The Jazz can do that to.

  4. #4
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    Are defensive efficiency is #25, and defensive rebounding #24. #22 in points allowed, and generally bad at defensive side. Per 48's, are starters are not as good as they would look. Foyes double the minutes over burks pans out to be about as good, like everyone else. When we lose, Al shoots less than .500(some like 1-9). You know what Jazz could do with 8 stops during a game..count about 2-3 as fast break/quick buckets. Even a .500 isn't great when your talking 22 shots with 9 misses.

    I have just rewatched as many games this last weekend, and highlight shows to have found lack luster parts in the overall game. Games when we win, like watching our first several home games, Jazz did more than just "make their shots", which is usually something Corbin says during his interviews.

    What really sticks out is Kanters starting night. Watch the Toronto game with Kanter, that was some great ball playing, or even the lose to OKC where Kanter got 18 off the bench.

    No statistic shows you when the person who put the shots, or when he doesn't make them(I mean these "1 quarter" games, are 3 quarters of 3-4 misses each, with one quarter that is 4 makes out of 5 or 6). For all you know, he shot 0 one game, and then 30 the next, giving him a 15ppg(hypothetical). If you watch or count if you will, the number of times he doesn't make it, and see how fast the other teams pick up on that stop. I mean 2-3 stops in a row picks up major momentum.

    If Big Al is not a black hole. He sets the pace for the other team.
    Last edited by RyanStorm; 01-01-2013 at 03:21 AM.
    All great things come to an end...even in basketball -Me

  5. #5
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    2/9 wins in last 9 games. Al got his average+ like 6 times, and the two wins were his lowest points at 16 and 12.

    I mean the list goes on. Pretty much we Can win, if Al doesn't miss a lot shots and makes more of his shots. We don't need 30 points from him to win, especially if he is missing 10+ shots a night. He gets rebounds but that is offensive side(earlier in your bold, I meant defensive side). Our offense isn't hot neither, like middle of the league.

    Either way, ask yourself this. Could Jazz have gone to the championship if they let Ostertag put up 15-20 shots a night from making his own plays?? Doesn't that sound stupid compared to doing Stockton to Malone.
    All great things come to an end...even in basketball -Me

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