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  1. #46
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    I didnt say he was VCat 2.0, I said its a similar situation. Both mashed in the lower levels (very similar stats), but were old for their level. Is believe Ian was the first to bring that up about VCats struggles. Happens all the time. Can't hack it at the higher levels.

    I like him and hope he turns out, but I said the same thing about VCat. In no way do I think it will happen, I am just saying it is almost an identical situation.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  2. #47
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    Ehh, Romero has only been in the pros for two year and just turned 24... not too worried about his age. He'll be 24 all of next season. I seriously don't buy into the "too old for such league" stuff... players can develop and mature at different rates, and if a guy doesn't reach his peak at the same time as some of other studs, it doesn't mean he can't still be a stud. If a guy can reach the majors in the first three years after college that's great, but I'm not gonna look down on someone because it took them four years to get there. As long as they prove they're worth giving a shot...

    "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Saunders and Seager? Thats just silly if they are in with Walker, Franklin and Paxton.
    I would do this deal any day. That sounds like a package we could absorb. I would look at replacing Seager with Smoak, or maybe get the Orioles to part with a prospect for Smoak to help finish the trade. Seager should hold down 3rd base for us next year.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamraMaan View Post
    Frankly, as GMZ I make a list of overvalued specs/players we have, and an undervalued list. Try and package the overvalued specs to get the most bang for our buck. Likewise, list the guys we have that might have legit value that we're starting to think twice about. If they overvalue one of our top specs, he headlines our trade package. I don't care which pitcher it is, if they key in on a guy, you tell them "ok, but you don't get everyone you want after him..." We negotiate after that. But giving them the primary guy they want gives us room to argue/haggle afterwards.

    I would try my damnedest to keep Zunino and Victor Sanchez, simply because I doubt another team values them enough. Same thing might go for Romero and Miller, but Romero might be one of those "overvalue" types that gets the deal done. I just see him as a nice potential replacement for Seager if he goes in the trade.
    I think Zunino's value is pretty damn high right now. The consensus seems to be that knowing what we know now he should have been the #1 overall pick in the draft. I've seen that said all over the place.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnymariner View Post
    Giggity.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    I didnt say he was VCat 2.0, I said its a similar situation. Both mashed in the lower levels (very similar stats), but were old for their level. Is believe Ian was the first to bring that up about VCats struggles. Happens all the time. Can't hack it at the higher levels.

    I like him and hope he turns out, but I said the same thing about VCat. In no way do I think it will happen, I am just saying it is almost an identical situation.
    You're right. He's old for his level, and he could turn out to be nothing.

    CM, you're right too. Some guys develop later, but I think you'd admit that as they get older for their levels the odds of future success negatively correlates.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWBrodie View Post
    You're right. He's old for his level, and he could turn out to be nothing.

    CM, you're right too. Some guys develop later, but I think you'd admit that as they get older for their levels the odds of future success negatively correlates.
    Of course. But I'm just not afraid of promoting a 25 year old guy if he looks like he can handle the promotion. Most guys need a couple years to learn how to hack it in the bigs, some dominate right off the bat, but if, say, Romero were to be promoted to start 2014, and was looked at as say the starting 2B/3B/LF/RF (depending on need and where they move him), I wouldn't be worried just because he's 25. And if it took a year or two to mature he would be entering his prime years ready to rock. Cost controlled from 25-30+... works for me.

    "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln

  8. #53
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    FWIW, I think we could see Romero as soon as June.

    Not sure it'll happen or not even saying its likely. I just think there's a chance he'll be ready. He completely destroyed AA pitching in 200 some ABs.
    I'm In.



  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout View Post
    FWIW, I think we could see Romero as soon as June.

    Not sure it'll happen or not even saying its likely. I just think there's a chance he'll be ready. He completely destroyed AA pitching in 200 some ABs.
    I have that same weird feeling as well. I see him following the Seager track more than the VCat flailure. Yes, flailure... its my new word.

    TBH, I would kinda like to see us be a little more aggressive with specs like the Marlins, on occasion. Promote a guy to the majors straight from AA if he's tearing it up, then if he doesn't make the MLB cut send him to AAA with some seasoning and desire to destroy AAA and get back to the majors.
    Last edited by CamraMaan; 01-02-2013 at 08:20 AM.

    "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak76 View Post
    I would do this deal any day. That sounds like a package we could absorb. I would look at replacing Seager with Smoak, or maybe get the Orioles to part with a prospect for Smoak to help finish the trade. Seager should hold down 3rd base for us next year.
    No way in hell id do Seager, Saunders, Walker, Franklin and Paxton. That would create multiple holes, and would probably end up not making it worthwhile. We already have 2 holes on the OF, we can't trade from it. Seager plus the specs is one thing, Saunders and Seager is another.

    Plus, Smoak and Seager's values aren't interchangeable like that. I would probably do Smoak and Saunders, but that's in no way equal to Seager and Saunders.

    Seager should hold down 3rd for us next year? What do you mean, he is gone after a year? That wouldn't make sense.
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    No way in hell id do Seager, Saunders, Walker, Franklin and Paxton. That would create multiple holes, and would probably end up not making it worthwhile. We already have 2 holes on the OF, we can't trade from it. Seager plus the specs is one thing, Saunders and Seager is another.

    Plus, Smoak and Seager's values aren't interchangeable like that. I would probably do Smoak and Saunders, but that's in no way equal to Seager and Saunders.

    Seager should hold down 3rd for us next year? What do you mean, he is gone after a year? That wouldn't make sense.
    It creates holes in 3rd only. Don't forget we still have Guti and every indication is that he is healthy. You hope that Bay or one of the multiple other 4th OFer can step up and take LF, which is what your doing anyways. I don't like what we have for 3rd down in the farm, but that could be a spot we can move Franklin to. You now have a legitimate middle of the order in Morales, and Stanton, and hopefully that helps our younger players like Smoak, Ackley and Montero. Plus, Stanton is a once in a generation player. We still have enough in the farm to surround him with talent. With a move like this we have an excellent chance of extending Morales if he pans out and it shows Felix we are serious about competing. However, I personally think the package won't be enough to get it done.

    Also, a lot can happen next year. Seager can suffer the dreaded sophmore slump and his value can drop. Look at what happened to Ackley. One of the guys down in the farm can just step up big time and make Seager expendable. A lot can happen in one year.

  12. #57
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    We already have 1-2 holes in the OF. This fills one, but then makes another. We can't count on Guti to be healthy or Bay to magically figure out how to hit. That's not a smart plan.

    Franklin is being traded too, how can you move him to third?

    Giving up two current starters and 3 top specs for one player isn't smart. I don't care who the player is. That is too much.

    People are acting like the top specs we trade are so unproven, yet they put a lot of faith into lower rated specs being able to fill in an produce. How does that make any sense?
    You have no idea how excited I am right now.


  13. #58
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    Forgot Bay was on the team.










    ****.
    Super Bowl XLVIII Champs



  14. #59
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    lol same

  15. #60
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    ....Giving up two current starters and 3 top specs for one player isn't smart. I don't care who the player is. That is too much....
    So, what is left?..

    Do the Mariners take a chance / roll the dice and bet on Michael Bourne. Is he the table setter that ignites the offense?.. Is he worth the 5 years $ 70 MM he is going to settle for?...

    Is there another option?.. do nothing?. go with the kids and stay the course?. Is there enough in the system to fill in the gaps? Will health prevail for the old guys allowing them to produce like they can?. Will the younger players show more than just promise?..

    Will Jack Z look at who's out there and make a deal that limits the exposure of his hard fought and kept prospects that are nearing major league readiness?. The Mariners pitching was pretty darn good last year.. They were top ten in ERA, WHIP and BAA as a staff. No reason to believe that's going to change for the worse.. In fact it should get better!!. The issue with the Mariners is the offensive output.. Only three other teams scored fewer runs.

    So.. how does Jack Z further improve the run production?. How about Justin Upton from the Dbax? Wouldn't he look pretty good in teal and blue? He would do what you want from a star. He'd extend the lineup, make everyone else around him better.. and would be that go to position player that the M's have lacked since the days of the Buhner Buzz and Edgar!! ahhh.. but here's the rub...the DBax want a "NOW" SS/3B..

    SO WHAT!!..

    IF the Mariners don't have one, trade for one. One thing is certain, Kyle Seager absolutely qualifies as a "now 3B". Stefen Romero would be a stretch, but could become one in the next 18 months. In short, Alex Liddi, the ViCat could possibly fill in for Seagar better than NOT HAVING Justin Upton patrolling RF.

    Nick Franklin is showing he might be better suited as a 2B.. Brendan Ryan is an abomination with the bat. A .240 lifetime hitter can only be tolerated in a stacked lineup. The M's lineup is NOT stacked... not even close.. Being okay with a sub-mendoza line hitter, even with a great glove, is for fans who need to quit drinking the Koolaid.

    I could see a trade where the M's get Upton.. a separate trade for an SS/3B, and never touch any one of Walker Hultzen, Franklin, Zunino and Paxson. The way a deal with the Dbax might not include Paxton is if some of the M's RP candidates and other SP specs are part of the deal. It would make the deal much more extensive w/r to the number of player moving. As examples, guys like Jack Marder and Leon Landry may be the pieces that round out the deal.

    BTW.. it should be easier to acquire bullpen arms than All Star corner outfielders with power, speed and under team control for three years at a reasonable rate...

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