Is hard to see with your eyes how many runs these guys saved with their defense and how many they produced with their base running skills because there is not old school stat to show that.
With the bat non of those 2 guys was as valuable as Delgado, but that was his whole game he did not add, but cost the team in the other parts of his game. Those other 2 guys did help the team in all facets of the game.
I am just as tired off talking about this as you are...but what I see is a GM who has been installed against the owners will. Who is nothing more than a GM to take the hits necessary from a rabid fan base who live and die by the mantra "what have you done for me lately". SA has been used by the Wilpons to deal players like Beltran and Dickey (possibly Reyes and Wright...depending on who you talk to). To wade through very lean budget years, all while putting a smile on his face. So when the team has finally cleared any budget concerns, he will be replaced with the current "yes-man" Wilpon favorite.
I have said this from the beginning.
Now I have also been a supporter of the rebuild (I just never thought it would really happen in this market), no matter the GM. I am not concerned with flipping the prospects they got for Beltran and Dickey into now players. It was clear since 2010, this team was no longer a "now team". So with so many young players still on this team...I don't see why SA has to replace all of Minaya's work.
Now since 2010 it has been very clear that this team was not going to go down the road of GM's past. (Trading for now-players). So why all of a sudden this was supposed to be? I don't buy it. This is more instant gratification rearing it's head again. What I see SA has built, is simply a young team thrown together. I don;t even see a stable core as of yet, and it's become obvious that the young players SA has brought in, he wants to keep and put on the field.
Is this a good plan? idk yet. I would rather wait to see if we can build a stable core first before we start flipping prospects for names.
THANK YOU PROKY!!!
But I think it's probably accurate that Endy and Valentin (and LoDuca as well) were each at least nearly as valuable as Delgado that year. That doesn't mean that would typically be the case. But Endy hit over .300 that year. A guy who plays defense like that in CF, and puts up above average offense, is typically going to be worth as much as a 1B who hits a lot of HR, but only hits .265, and plays below average defense.
"We're snakebitten, baby." --Fred Wilpon
And even Valentin rode the bench for the most of the first month of the season.
EDIT: Yeah, it's silly. Delgado had nearly 100 points higher in OBP while putting up nearly 200 more plate appearances. I get that Valentin had value; I get that he was a very good second baseman and I get that Delgado was not a very good first baseman.
But even after you add everything up, there is no way Valentin was more valuable than Delgado. The mathematical formula is flawed and this example illustrates it.
Last edited by fanofclendennon; 01-02-2013 at 12:36 AM.
And we're the dopes.
I think I should state that even though I was and am one of the bigger Omar supporters here, it was obviously time for a change when Sandy was hired, and I 100% supported the decision to hire Alderson. However, I've had two big problems with Sandy so far.
First, there have been plenty of cheap moves that could have been made to improve the ballclub (notably this offseason) that he simply did not look into. IMO we are still in desperate need of a left handed reliever. Banking on Edgin and Carson for a full season is not smart, especially with bats in our division like Howard, Utely, McCann, Harper, possibly LaRoche. The only addition to the OF has been Colin freakin Cowgill.
Second, I think the rebuilding process should be further along than it is. I'd rather see money spent on guys like Francisco and Rauch be spent on someone like Cespedes or other players that will contribute to the future of this ballclub.
We haven't been in on the bidding for guys like Chapman, Cespedes, Leonys Martin, Yasiel Puig, Jorge Soler, Yu Darvish, Hiroki Kuroda, Junichi Tazawa, Koji Uehara, or Daisuke Matsusaka. Or even low budget under the radar guys like Aioki (who we could use in the outfield right now).