Sandy Alderson's "plan" appears to be the rope-a-dope

[bklynny67]

Not sure I would call Baxter a player he's brought in that's "done well".

He has only 213 at bats with us and a .258 avg with only 4 HR's and 21 RBI's. But I understand what you're saying... it's just sad that our team is so bad that that sample size is considered "doing well". LOL

[bklynny67]

But like I said in a previous post, if not for Omar signing Beltran and Dickey and therefore giving SA good players to turn into blue chip prospects, what has this guy done for us????

Really if not for Omar, we'd have no Wheeler, d'Arnaud, and Syndergaard to look forward to... so all SA has done is lose Reyes for nothing and resign Wright..... am I right or am I missing something? SA has really done extremely little for us in 3 years now... I'm really hoping it's only because of our money constraints and he was forced to wait for all those contracts to come off the books and that he starts to sign some impact players starting next yr when we will have a nice core of Harvey, Wheeler, Wright, Ike, and TDA.

Guess we'll see next yr.

[Sick Of It All]

No, he has done good considering what he should be and that is a bench player.

[bklynny67]

From a Mets fan perspective only, I really wish 2013 is the yr that's ending so we could see what kinda moves we're gonna make to add to our good young players we have after more contracts come off the books. I WANNA KNOW WHO WE'RE GONNA ADD NOW!!

[metsbulls1025]

But like I said in a previous post, if not for Omar signing Beltran and Dickey and therefore giving SA good players to turn into blue chip prospects, what has this guy done for us????

Really if not for Omar, we'd have no Wheeler, d'Arnaud, and Syndergaard to look forward to... so all SA has done is lose Reyes for nothing and resign Wright..... am I right or am I missing something? SA has really done extremely little for us in 3 years now... I'm really hoping it's only because of our money constraints and he was forced to wait for all those contracts to come off the books and that he starts to sign some impact players starting next yr when we will have a nice core of Harvey, Wheeler, Wright, Ike, and TDA.

Guess we'll see next yr.

And I think this argument is complete BS. Just because Sandy was allowed those players doesn't mean a thing.

The Blue Jays GM said he offered TDA for Dickey straight up. What does Omar have to do with Sandy either caving in and taking that or holding out for more players? The answer is nothing. Sandy held out and was able to get TDA, Syndergaard, Buck, and Wuilmer Becerra.

Again this notion that it is easy to just flip guys like Beltran and Dickey for top prospects is ridiculous. We say every year teams get bent over for what they obtain for star players.

[bklynny67]

And I think this argument is complete BS. Just because Sandy was allowed those players doesn't mean a thing.

The Blue Jays GM said he offered TDA for Dickey straight up. What does Omar have to do with Sandy either caving in and taking that or holding out for more players? The answer is nothing. Sandy held out and was able to get TDA, Syndergaard, Buck, and Wuilmer Becerra.

Again this notion that it is easy to just flip guys like Beltran and Dickey for top prospects is ridiculous. We say every year teams get bent over for what they obtain for star players.

ok...

All I'm saying is if Omar didn't bring in Beltran and Dickey, we wouldn't have any of those players. That's all I said and that is the truth.

If we had no Beltran and Dickey already here, please tell me what SA has done? That's all I said..... is that without Omar bringing them in, SA hasn't really done anything at all. He was lucky those players were here and that Dickey won a Cy Young, otherwise we'd be screwed and not have those new prospects to talk about.

Yes, he did a great job being able to get Wheeler and getting the most out of a Dickey trade, BUT my statement was simply without the guys Omar brought here, SA would not have had that chance... so in 3 yrs he has done little on his own. Period and truth.

[metsbulls1025]

I will say that there have been 3 guys that he has brought in that have done well and that is Hairston, Byrdak and Baxter.

And is that not what finding those types of players is all about? It isn't about building your entire team like that, but it is about finding players that exceed expectations to give your team extra wins.

If we had a competitive team those players would have been seen as pretty good moves to add production to the bench and BP. Much like Jose Valentine was for Omar.

The thing is no one would give 2 ***** about Valentine if we were not winning games.

[metsbulls1025]

ok...

All I'm saying is if Omar didn't bring in Beltran and Dickey, we wouldn't have any of those players. That's all I said and that is the truth.

If we had no Beltran and Dickey already here, please tell me what SA has done? That's all I said..... is that without Omar bringing them in, SA hasn't really done anything at all.

I don't know what Sandy would have done and neither does anyone else. We are no trying to discuss an alternate reality which is ridiculous. Beltran was here for like 6 years and you are trying to tell me thank god for 6 years ago because Sandy wouldn't have been able to do something else? That is the most asinine thing I have every read on here.

Sandy's job is to fix this organization. He moved pieces that were on this team. Are we no supposed to go back and discredit every GM who has traded other GM's players away?

[bklynny67]

And is that not what finding those types of players is all about. It isn't about building your entire team like that, but it is about finding players that exceed expectations to give your team extra wins.

If we had a competitive team those players would have been seen as pretty good moves to add production to the bench and BP. Much like Jose Valentine was for Omar.

The difference is no one would give 2 ***** about Valentine if we were not winning games.

But Valentin was a part of the reason we were winning games. He was very clutch, hit .271 in 2006 with 18 HR's and 62 RBI's in only 384 at bats. That's VERY productive. When was the last time we had a player like him? A guy we added that we didn't expect a whole lot from and put up numbers like that? You think Baxter is gonna do that? LOL

Omar added bench players for us like Valentin, Endy, and Julio Franco which were all a big part of our success. We've had one of the worst benches every yr since Omar left. It's frustrating.....

[bklynny67]

I don't know what Sandy would have done and neither does anyone else. We are no trying to discuss an alternate reality which is ridiculous. Beltran was here for like 6 years and you are trying to tell me thank god for 6 years ago because Sandy wouldn't have been able to do something else? That is the most asinine thing I have every read on here.

Sandy's job is to fix this organization. He moved pieces that were on this team. Are we no supposed to go back and discredit every GM who has traded other GM's players away?

No, but what other GM in 3 yrs has ONLY made moves where he traded other GM's players for good prospects? No other moves at all worth mentioning. If not for those two trades, he literally has done nothing except resign Wright. That's all I'm saying.. hopefully it's because he hasn't been allowed to spend money. That's all we can hope for.

[YoungStuna28]

How can you compare what Omar has done to what Sandy has done?

He hasn't had an open checkbook like Omar had. So judging him off of big FA signings is wrong.

Hairston and Baxter have been quality bench players. Hefner has been serviceable as well.

[Sick Of It All]

And is that not what finding those types of players is all about. It isn't about building your entire team like that, but it is about finding players that exceed expectations to give your team extra wins.

If we had a competitive team those players would have been seen as pretty good moves to add production to the bench and BP. Much like Jose Valentine was for Omar.

The difference is no one would give 2 ***** about Valentine if we were not winning games.

Is about building a winner period and if you buy into his plan of building up the farm and building a contender, then you have to also understand that it will not take 2-3 years, but more like 5-6 years and the problem the blogger and some other fans have is that Sandy has said quite the opposite. He continuously talks about not punting the season and some moves have been made or not made for the sole purpose to win a couple of more games and that is something I have had issues with so far.

I am more than fine in waiting years to see a winner and I am one of the few guys around here that will enjoy watching the youth even if they struggle.

...but the difference between that 2006 and now is what the other dude mention. In that year aside from the big guys that were brought in they had many other guys who were hidden gems.

Valentin had a 3.1 WAR
Chavez had a 3.1 WAR

Think about that for a second, that was more than what Delgado's WAR was that year at 3.0. I think many fans expected more of that from Sandy and so far have not gotten that.

[bklynny67]

Is about building a winner period and if you buy into his plan of building up the farm and building a contender, then you have to also understand that it will not take 2-3 years, but more like 5-6 years and the problem the blogger and some other fans have is that Sandy has said quite the opposite. He continuously talks about not punting the season and some moves have been made or not made for the sole purpose to win a couple of more games and that is something I have had issues with so far.

I am more than fine in waiting years to see a winner and I am one of the few guys around here that will enjoy watching the youth even if they struggle.

...but the difference between that 2006 and now is what the other dude mention. In that year aside from the big guys that were brought in they had many other guys who were hidden gems.

Valentin had a 3.1 WAR
Chavez had a 3.1 WAR

Think about that for a second, that was more than what Delgado's WAR was that year at 3.0. I think many fans expected more of that from Sandy and so far have not gotten that.

Thanks, this is what I'm saying... I know SA hasn't been able to spend big money, but Omar even added guys on the cheap who would be amoung the better players on this current team. Maybe he got lucky? Or maybe he's just that good at evaluating talent?

I just really hope after this upcoming season that once we have a young core of Wright, Ike, TDA, Harvey, and Wheeler, and eventually Syndergaard if he pans out, i hope SA makes a couple impact signings, preferably an OFer and some bullpen help.... We'll see.

[Sick Of It All]

How can you compare what Omar has done to what Sandy has done?

He hasn't had an open checkbook like Omar had. So judging him off of big FA signings is wrong.

Hairston and Baxter have been quality bench players. Hefner has been serviceable as well.

I mention this before, they are in 2 different situations period.

...but the question has been where are the moves for those hidden gems that the trio of highly paid executives were supposed to be great at?

I personally thought they would wheel and deal more than they have so far, it's been a slow moving process so far and imo it will be another 3 years before we see better results. I think many of the young guys will have good years here and there, but the team probably will not.

[YoungStuna28]

I mention this before, they are in 2 different situations period.

...but the question has been where are the moves for those hidden gems that the trio of highly paid executives were supposed to be great at?

I personally thought they would wheel and deal more than they have so far, it's been a slow moving process so far and imo it will be another 3 years before we see better results. I think many of the young guys will have good years here and there, but the team probably will not.

Exactly.

Judging them on hidden gems is unfair as well. Do you think Omar knew he was signing a Cy Young winner when he signed Dickey to a minor league contract? He just got lucky. Chavez and Valentin were quality pick-ups, but mostly for just one year.

Things will be looking up imo by 2014. We should get better and better from that point.