Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 81
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    79,776
    vCash
    1500

    Sandy Alderson's "plan" appears to be the rope-a-dope

    http://blog.nj.com/mets/2012/12/post_14.html
    We are halfway through Sandy Alderson's third off season as Mets General Manager. This should be a time when we can begin to see some of the results of Alderson's rebuilding plan.

    When Alderson was hired we all knew the Mets would not be competitive for a few years. Ownership was dealing with Irving Picard's claw-back lawsuit and the Mets payroll was dramatically top heavy.

    Met fans had no expectations of high profile free agents signing with the Mets any time in the near future. The hiring of front office gurus Paul DePodesta and J.P. Ricciardi did, however, suggest that the roster would be turned over significantly by now, albeit with less glamorous acquisitions.

    I decided to review the Mets 40 man roster to see how many players are Alderson acquisitions and how many are holdovers from prior regimes. Only 11 players on the 40 man roster were brought to the Mets by Alderson. The remaining 27 were already here when Alderson was hired (currently, two spots on the 40 man roster are unfilled).

    Three years into Alderson's tenure and this is still largely Omar Minaya's team. I fully expected the Alderson regime to be very active in "under-the-radar" deals to compensate for their inability to spend their way out of the mistakes of the past. While there are many possible explanations for their lack of activity, the facts point to three highly paid executives employing a "rope-a-dope" strategy of rebuilding the farm system from the bottom up while allowing the major league team to flounder indefinitely.

    Every year Alderson claims the Mets are not "punting" the season but his perpetual inactivity suggests otherwise. If your team is far from contending and you do nothing to improve it, it is hard to defend the assertion that you are not punting.

    I fully endorse avoiding "lateral" moves made just for the sake of appearing to be active. But the expectation was this dream team front office would be finding diamonds in the rough around the league and stealing away the undervalued players from the competition. Either the league has become very sophisticated in player valuation or the Met front office is all sizzle and no steak.

    To be fair, Alderson has done a great job maximizing the return on the high value assets he decided to sell, Carlos Beltran and R.A. Dickey. Zack Wheeler and Travis d'Arnaud look to be mainstays and Noah Syndergaard could prove to be a steal.

    Alderson has done very little during his tenure to improve the 25 man team the Mets put on the field. It appears most of the energy of the front office has gone into rebuilding the minor league system.

    Rebuilding the farm system is the only way to achieve long term sustained success, so I am not critical of that initiative. But I am becoming annoyed with the annual "we are not punting" speech, when his actions make him look like Ray Guy from his own end zone.

    David Wright claims he heard "the plan" from Alderson and he liked it. As a long time Met fan, I also would like to hear the plan.

    Met fans have lived through a lot of BS and we can recognize it a mile away. Telling us that you are not punting when you have done so little to improve the team insults our intelligence. If we knew the framework and the timing of this plan, it may make it easier to justify paying to see a few games at Citi Field.

    When you lie to us about punting, we also wonder if you really do have a plan that goes beyond simply waiting another three years for the farm system to be restocked.

    If there is a light at the end of the tunnel, management should share it with Met fans, we can be surprisingly patient. However, when management continually over-sells their product in an attempt to "fool" fans into attending games, we become resentful and distrusting.

    The Wilpons had the nerve to say the Madoff mess would have no impact on the operation of the Mets when the Ponzi scheme was initially uncovered. That was a lie to buy time. Ownership's annual efforts to pay debt with more debt suggest an unstable foreseeable future for the franchise as they keep trying to buy time to hold onto the franchise. It is understandable why some fans feel that references to a "plan" to make the Mets relevant in the near future are only words trying, again, to buy time.

    Ownership and management need to understand just how fractured the relationship has become between them and the fans. There is only one way to repair it ... honesty.

    Stop insulting us with claims of possible contention when you know the only way that would happen would be sheer luck.

    Frank Cashen made the Mets into winners in the eighties by rebuilding the farm, trading for a couple of key stars and filling out the roster with solid players. Alderson needs to start bringing in players like Tim Teufel, Howard Johnson, Ray Knight and Bob Ojeda. Cashen traded prospects for those players, all of whom contributed to their championship in 1986.

    I am not even asking for a trade like the ones made for Keith Hernandez and Gary Carter. You make those trades when you are much closer to contending. But three years into his regime, I expected Alderson would have found a Bob Ojeda or Howard Johnson by now.

    The lack of those types of acquisitions by Alderson is beginning to make me wonder, not whether there is a plan but, whether Alderson is the right guy to oversee the next phase in the rebuilding process.

    Stop telling us you are not punting and start showing us!


    Oh BTW I have become numb to all this

    ...but cue in the apologists and haters in 3...2...1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    29,170
    vCash
    1500
    I actually refuse to talk about it anymore. It is beating a dead horse at this point and there just is no point anymore.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    2,995
    vCash
    1500
    There's also only 11 players who were born before 1986. It's a very young roster. After Santana, Francisco, and Burke, the next oldest pitcher is Bobby Parnell. After Buck, Wright, and Recker, the next oldest position player is Justin Turner.

    He doesn't really need to turn over much more of the roster at this point, what he needs is to add a couple more star talents and let those young players grow.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    31,041
    vCash
    1500
    The best line in this blog was the one about our expectation that the dream team would find diamonds in the rough. The dream team has done nothing other than convert two blue chip all stars into blue chip prospects.

    In other words, Big F-ing deal.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    29,170
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    The best line in this blog was the one about our expectation that the dream team would find diamonds in the rough. The dream team has done nothing other than convert two blue chip all stars into blue chip prospects.

    In other words, Big F-ing deal.
    Where you expecting an entire team built on diamonds in the rough?

    Also you always say all he did was trade all stars for prospects. You act like he didn't put in any effort for that and it is just easy to pluck away teams best minor league talent.

    He actually did play the market you know and stood firm on asking prices and didn't cave just to get a deal done.

    But hey Big F'N deal right?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    79,776
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by acerimusdux View Post
    There's also only 11 players who were born before 1986. It's a very young roster. After Santana, Francisco, and Burke, the next oldest pitcher is Bobby Parnell. After Buck, Wright, and Recker, the next oldest position player is Justin Turner.

    He doesn't really need to turn over much more of the roster at this point, what he needs is to add a couple more star talents and let those young players grow.
    True, but something I was expecting more of was the dealing of some of those prospects for mlb caliber players.

    I guess I was expecting more change to the roster than what they have done so far. You were talking about 3 GM's who were not scared to deal and wheel and so far that has been minimum.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,008
    vCash
    1500
    Omar signed Beltran AND Dickey.

    If SA didn't have those two players when he took over, what would he have done for us so far?

    We wouldn't have Wheeler, d'Arnaud, and Syndergaard...... He was lucky he already had those players and that Dickey turned in a Cy Young season, otherwise we'd have no new blue chip prospects cuz we'd have nothing else to trade except Wright....

    so really, what has SA done himself? Nothing....

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    79,776
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    The best line in this blog was the one about our expectation that the dream team would find diamonds in the rough. The dream team has done nothing other than convert two blue chip all stars into blue chip prospects.

    In other words, Big F-ing deal.
    See people will give them credit for getting that kind of return for those 2 players and rightfully so, but at the same time is not like he traded trash for those prospects. They traded the freaking Cy Young and and a guy that was having a great freaking season the year before that.

    They traded all star players for prospects and regardless of what the media or fans think or suggest they could of gotten, those 2 guys had excellent value to teams trying to win NOW and those teams always will pay high for those guys. It is something that has happen all the time in baseball.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    4,008
    vCash
    1500
    Omar got a lot of ***** from people, but in his first couple yrs he brought in Beltran, Pedro, Wagner, Delgado, and Lo Duca, then also added a strong bench with Jose Valentin, Endy, and Julio Franco.... also added bullpen arms in Duaner Sanchez and Chad Bradford.

    Sure there were some bad moves too, but all the moves i listed at least put us in position to compete for a WS title, we just didn't get the job done.

    Funny that if not for two of Omar's signings, SA literally would have done nothing for us in the few yrs he's already been here except extending Wright.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    31,041
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by metsbulls1025 View Post
    Where you expecting an entire team built on diamonds in the rough?

    Also you always say all he did was trade all stars for prospects. You act like he didn't put in any effort for that and it is just easy to pluck away teams best minor league talent.

    He actually did play the market you know and stood firm on asking prices and didn't cave just to get a deal done.

    But hey Big F'N deal right?
    No, not a whole team of rough diamonds. But one might be nice. Sigh.

    He had two players with very high value and scored nice returns on them that SHOULD help us in the future. Ok. I won't trivialize the job Sandy did there.

    But geez, in three years, he's done NOTHING else. NOTHING. ZERO.

    His trades for major league talent have been terrible. His free agent signings a joke.

    So why are you so eager to give him a pass on his inability to improve the team in three years just because he did a good job getting value for Carlos Beltran and RA Dickey while getting doodly squat for Jose Reyes?

    Why?
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    79,776
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    Omar got a lot of ***** from people, but in his first couple yrs he brought in Beltran, Pedro, Wagner, Delgado, and Lo Duca, then also added a strong bench with Jose Valentin, Endy, and Julio Franco.... also added bullpen arms in Duaner Sanchez and Chad Bradford.

    Sure there were some bad moves too, but all the moves i listed at least put us in position to compete for a WS title, we just didn't get the job done.

    Funny that if not for two of Omar's signings, SA literally would have done nothing for us in the few yrs he's already been here except extending Wright.
    Listen I have defended Omar a lot on these boards and other places and in the end he hung himself with giving long term expensive contracts to mediocre players who became really bad.

    ...but yes he was able to land some big names as well as find some hidden gems in his first couple of seasons as GM and then he was not able to do much, but I personally I think that he created much of it because he sounded really bad every time he was behind a mike. One thing I learned in the 2 years Sandy has been here is that fans rather have a GM that sounds great saying nothing, than a GM that just sounds clueless every time he was behind a mike.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    31,041
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Listen I have defended Omar a lot on these boards and other places and in the end he hung himself with giving long term expensive contracts to mediocre players who became really bad.

    ...but yes he was able to land some big names as well as find some hidden gems in his first couple of seasons as GM and then he was not able to do much, but I personally I think that he created much of it because he sounded really bad every time he was behind a mike. One thing I learned in the 2 years Sandy has been here is that fans rather have a GM that sounds great saying nothing, than a GM that just sounds clueless every time he was behind a mike.
    Omar did a lot worse than sounding bad in front of a mic. He also showed he lacked the managerial skills to run a baseball team, especially one in a large market. But he knew talent.

    Unfortunately that wasn't enough to make him a good GM. He was a victim of the Peter Principle.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    79,776
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    No, not a whole team of rough diamonds. But one might be nice. Sigh.

    He had two players with very high value and scored nice returns on them that SHOULD help us in the future. Ok. I won't trivialize the job Sandy did there.

    But geez, in three years, he's done NOTHING else. NOTHING. ZERO.

    His trades for major league talent have been terrible. His free agent signings a joke.

    So why are you so eager to give him a pass on his inability to improve the team in three years just because he did a good job getting value for Carlos Beltran and RA Dickey while getting doodly squat for Jose Reyes?

    Why?
    I will say that there have been 3 guys that he has brought in that have done well and that is Hairston, Byrdak and Baxter.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    79,776
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Omar did a lot worse than sounding bad in front of a mic. He also showed he lacked the managerial skills to run a baseball team, especially one in a large market. But he knew talent.

    Unfortunately that wasn't enough to make him a good GM. He was a victim of the Peter Principle.
    In the end am a guy that rather have a GM that knows talent over a well educated one who does not. I think the guy that knows talent is more likely to build a winner than the guy who is just a suit.

    ..obviously though I rather have one that is good at both and am still hoping Sandy is that guy, but imo his plan to get the Mets to be a contender will require maybe another 3 years minimum. Hope am wrong though as we have seen around baseball that sometimes a young team comes along and just surprises people.Am hoping that the Mets are that team in the next couple of years.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    31,041
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    In the end am a guy that rather have a GM that knows talent over a well educated one who does not. I think the guy that knows talent is more likely to build a winner than the guy who is just a suit.

    ..obviously though I rather have one that is good at both and am still hoping Sandy is that guy, but imo his plan to get the Mets to be a contender will require maybe another 3 years minimum. Hope am wrong though as we have seen around baseball that sometimes a young team comes along and just surprises people.Am hoping that the Mets are that team in the next couple of years.
    I think Sandy has surrounded himself with people who could make up for his baseball knowledge deficit. But we'll see. Jury is still out.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •