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View Poll Results: Would You Vote Ortiz for the HOF?

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  • Yes: I would Vote him in now

    18 16.22%
  • Yes: If he gets to at least 450-500 HRs

    15 13.51%
  • No: His numbers are good, but not HOF good

    55 49.55%
  • No: His Offensive Numbers are HOF but he was a DH

    4 3.60%
  • No: Because he may have done/did PEDs

    14 12.61%
  • Yes: But only if he can clear his name from PED use

    5 4.50%
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  1. #1
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    Would you Vote Ortiz for the HOF?

    I think this is going to be one of the more interesting players when his time comes for him to be on the HOF Ballot.

    I think when it is all said and done he will most likely have 450+ HRs, with an outside shot at 500 if he plays through his age 40 season

    But lets say he retires after his current 2 year contract, and he hits 28 and 25 HRs (not unrealistic at all)

    That would put him at 454 career HRs

    with a slash around of about 282/378/545 with a career .390 wOBA, 135 wRC+

    Offensively that is seemingly HOF numbers, but then you have the factor that he barely played the field.

    Then there are the steroid accusations, where he tested for something positive but we don't know what. It was that list from 03 where he very may have well tested for something other than steroids, but was still a PED. We will never know because although it was leaked, legally they can never show this list.

    Either way, you have that, but Ortiz was not a D-bag like Clemens, Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa, McGuire, Arod, Manny.

    For the most part Ortiz has an image that is 10 times better than any of those guys.

    I think he is going to be a very interesting case study for a number of reasons when his time comes.

    Obviously as a Sox fan I would want him in, but to the non-biased people how would you vote on him, if he ends with those above projected numbers?
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  2. #2
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    This is a bad argument my friend. You're basically accepting Ortiz' name being tied with PED's because he's a nice guy? Being a nice guy has nothing to do with it or else Ty Cobb wouldn't be in the Hall.

    I don't know where we even begin to sort out Hall of Fame voting for the Roids-era of baseball but it would make me a hypocrite to vote Papi in. Sadly, as much as I love the guy, I have to say "no".

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bama Sox View Post
    This is a bad argument my friend. You're basically accepting Ortiz' name being tied with PED's because he's a nice guy? Being a nice guy has nothing to do with it or else Ty Cobb wouldn't be in the Hall.

    I don't know where we even begin to sort out Hall of Fame voting for the Roids-era of baseball but it would make me a hypocrite to vote Papi in. Sadly, as much as I love the guy, I have to say "no".
    It wasn't an argument, it was laying out the facts. I Put out both arguments on both issues.
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  4. #4
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    I mean, he was that good for a few years, but ultimately the links to PEDs keep him out.

    What I think is that they should accept all these steriod users and put them in a special section of the hall explaining that PEDs were part of the game at that point. (So BigMac, Sammy, Palmario, Clemens all make it, although noted with an *)

    Still, it's kinda iffy even then if Papi makes the HOF



    SOON



  5. #5
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    Nope, I think he's pretty obviously a juicer.

  6. #6
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    Would you Vote Ortiz for the HOF?

    Definitely not


    If You Ain't Huckin, You Ain't ****in

  7. #7
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    Would you Vote Ortiz for the HOF?

    Not even that I particularly think he should get in but are we just not going to vote in any players from this era? I know I've said this before in the hall of fame thread but its pretty ridiculous that the voters play moral police and won't vote on a player because they THINK he juiced.

  8. #8
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    Nope...pretty sure he sucked when he was with the Twins (pre roids)

  9. #9
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    He's a good player, but not good enough to make the HOF. Had only six excellent years.


    Ariana Grande

  10. #10
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    He won't even sniff the Hall. Career WAR under 40 as it stands now, doesn't play in the field and has his name linked to PEDs.

    No chance and I wouldn't vote for him.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by YEDB90 View Post
    He won't even sniff the Hall. Career WAR under 40 as it stands now, doesn't play in the field and has his name linked to PEDs.

    No chance and I wouldn't vote for him.
    I am not saying you are wrong, but by that logic a DH will never get it, because their WAR, especially a guy like Ortiz, is mostly offensive WAR.

    I mean you can't look at WAR in the context each position except for DH.

    I mean his Rate stats are better than a lot of of people in the Hall.

    Derek Jeter for example, he is going to the HOF. Ortiz offensively was much better than Jeter, that is quite clear. Jeter has a better WAR because he simply played the field (and sucked balls at it). Dare I say Ortiz would have been better Defensively at 1B, than Jeter was at SS. I can actually bring statistical evidence to support that.

    That is where WAR seems so flawed to me. I feel like Ortiz if he played SS from 03-07 and put up a (-)25-(-30) UZR with his numbers would have been more valuable than he was at DH, but in reality that is just false it would be the same Offensive production as he was as a DH, but a huge ****ing negative defensively.

    That is just a whole other rant though.
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  12. #12
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    his numbers give him a good case...but his value being purely an offensive and his name being linked to ped's.raises questions about his numbers.

    ...i could see him getting in though,because this you said he's a likable character unlike the other users and thus would get a pass for being tainted

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by papipapsmanny View Post
    I am not saying you are wrong, but by that logic a DH will never get it, because their WAR, especially a guy like Ortiz, is mostly offensive WAR.

    I mean you can't look at WAR in the context each position except for DH.

    I mean his Rate stats are better than a lot of of people in the Hall.

    Derek Jeter for example, he is going to the HOF. Ortiz offensively was much better than Jeter, that is quite clear. Jeter has a better WAR because he simply played the field (and sucked balls at it). Dare I say Ortiz would have been better Defensively at 1B, than Jeter was at SS. I can actually bring statistical evidence to support that.

    That is where WAR seems so flawed to me. I feel like Ortiz if he played SS from 03-07 and put up a (-)25-(-30) UZR with his numbers would have been more valuable than he was at DH, but in reality that is just false it would be the same Offensive production as he was as a DH, but a huge ****ing negative defensively.

    That is just a whole other rant though.
    I think Frank Thomas deserves it and he was a DH for a large portion of his career. Ortiz had a very good six year stretch, but even in his best year wasn't THAT stellar.

    You're wrong about Ortiz being better than Jeter offensively, too. Jeter has always been a much better offensive player than Ortiz. Its really not even close.

    Ortiz's best six year stretch had the following WAR (and this is strictly offensively): 3.2, 4.3, 5.2, 5.5, 6.3, 1.9

    Jeter's best six year stretch? Again strictly offensively: 4.3, 6.5, 7.5, 3.8, 4.3, 5.8

    WAR isn't the end all be all, but it's a fair enough judgement and personally unless the DH is outstanding, I personally dont think they should be in the Hall. That's my opinion, though.

  14. #14
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    Like I said this will be a very interesting case study

    Good O numbers vs no defense

    Good Character guy (likable) vs PED use
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by YEDB90 View Post
    I think Frank Thomas deserves it and he was a DH for a large portion of his career. Ortiz had a very good six year stretch, but even in his best year wasn't THAT stellar.

    You're wrong about Ortiz being better than Jeter offensively, too. Jeter has always been a much better offensive player than Ortiz. Its really not even close.

    Ortiz's best six year stretch had the following WAR (and this is strictly offensively): 3.2, 4.3, 5.2, 5.5, 6.3, 1.9

    Jeter's best six year stretch? Again strictly offensively: 4.3, 6.5, 7.5, 3.8, 4.3, 5.8


    WAR isn't the end all be all, but it's a fair enough judgement and personally unless the DH is outstanding, I personally dont think they should be in the Hall. That's my opinion, though.
    Dude look at their advanced rate stats for their careers wOBA/wRC+ not really close at all
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

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