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  1. #31
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    Maybe I'm crazy, but if I were president I would have demanded this be on my desk no later than October 31st. Probably sooner, I don't really know what power that I would have as president to enforce my deadline but I would make sure I had something.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by nymetsrule View Post
    You are your government. If you don't like it, don't vote for any of them.
    And that accomplishes what exactly? Over half the country didn't vote in the last elections and yet they are still getting F'D over by our government.

    Just face the fact that whether you vote or not your opinion is worthless in this country unless you are big business.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    This is the kind of ***** that you get when the political system has become totally corrupted by BIG money, and when your electoral system allows you to elect people to Congress who are able to thwart actual 'government' by their obstructive, partisan tactics.

    In any sensible democracy, the party or coalition that 'wins' the election (as Obama did) forms a government and has a 'working majority' which, at its simplest, means that you can pass budgets, enact laws, and actually 'govern'.

    The US two party system is obsolete and rotten to the core. Most people are regularly left to decide which party represents 'the lesser of two evils', because there are no real choices. I'd like to see the Reps returning to being a party with whom I have nothing in common, but to whom you can at least talk reason and compromise, which is not possible with the Tea baggers.

    I'd like to see the TP set up on their own to the right of the Reps, with another party to the left of the Dems. That would at least reflect the public division of opinion a little more realistically. Some form of proportional representation is also a must in any process of political reform.
    I agree.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Maybe I'm crazy, but if I were president I would have demanded this be on my desk no later than October 31st. Probably sooner, I don't really know what power that I would have as president to enforce my deadline but I would make sure I had something.
    you wouldn't have any. the Republicans will probably laugh and take this opportunity to make you look less presidential by ignoring you.


    "Hard" Kobe getting shook by a role player

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlohm1 View Post
    how is the deficit not a problem? they have an obligation to balance their budget.

    and there has to be some kind of entitlement reform. it's 70% of the federal budget. I would actually disagree and I think that most people agree that there has to be some kind of entitlement reform.
    The deficit isn't a problem because we hold most of our own debt, and the rate for 10 year bonds are at all time lows. Markets don't believe the deficit and debt are a problem, otherwise they wouldn't be pouring in large amounts of their own money into treasuries and bonds the way they are, while accepting small returns in exchange for safety.

    If the deficit were an actual problem, markets would leave those long term bonds and treasuries, and the rate would jump much higher. Markets don't believe the debt and deficits are a problem.

    And Social Security is a small part of the budget. There are no problems there. In fact, back in the 80's, Social Security had bigger problems, and they were fixed without any issues. Social Security is one of the most successful programs in the history of the United States.

    Now Medicare is putting a ton of drag on the budget for the very long term (if trends continue), but that's not the fault of medicare (the concept of the government paying for a needy person's health), as it's the fact that we have a terrible privately-owned-publicly-subsidized healthcare system that allows private industry to exploit everything to overcharge for medicine. I'll take Pfizer for example. They are given government protected patents that allow them to overcharge for medicine. They make pills that they charge for hundreds, if not, thousands of dollars. Due to the government given patents, no one else is allowed to make and sell those pills. If generics were allowed, those pills would probably just cost a few bucks. But since Pfizer has government patents, generics are illegal, and they can overcharge for the pill since they know the government will pay the bill, and thanks to government protection, no one else is allowed to make such a pill.

    It's really a system that allows private institutions to leech off of public tax dollars, and that is what could cause any long term problems. In fact, if the U.S. had a health system like any other industrialized country in the world, we wouldn't have a deficit, but we'd have a surplus. Here is an excellent calculator that can give you the exact numbers if you wanted to test with different countries systems:

    http://www.cepr.net/calculators/hc/hc-calculator.html

    So there exists no need to cut social programs (or "entitlements" as they're referred to). BUT there is a need to move away from the current health system of private industry leeching off of public tax money, and move into a health system that is like any other industrialized countries in the world.

  5. #35
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    Well we're all ****ed, Government has always sucked anyways.

  6. #36
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    Awful deal.
    Last edited by Longhornfan1234; 01-01-2013 at 10:19 AM.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justinnum1
    Wade will be a lot better next season now that he got knee surgery. Hate on. - 7/31/2012

  7. #37
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    This deal will solve nothing. Significant spending cuts still need to be made.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by nymetsrule View Post
    You are your government. If you don't like it, don't vote for any of them.
    I've been waiting so long for someone to say this. For some reason the value of one vote is now seen as "useless". Well it wouldn't be useless if everyone made different choices. Fact is, you don't have to vote for the 2 parties, and if enough people wrote in "gcoll", gcoll would be our president.

    So the two nominees from the main parties don't please you. Waaaaah, whaaaaaaaaah!!! Cry me a river and either don't vote or vote third party, or write in who you think is the best person in America. Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks or how the majority votes, and embrace the value of your own. If everyone did that, maybe we'd have the kind of results everyone pines for.

    These politicians don't just fall out of the sky-- they're produced by American households and schools and they're voted in by Americans. We're not saddled with these horrible liars, it's just that horrible liars are who appeal to the majority of voters and have the ability to secure votes. If I was running for office, I'd be lying my *** off and shaking hands with babies and doing all the inauthentic ******** that they do now. Because that's who we vote for as a society. And what is society composed of? Individuals. You. Boom.

    *not sure if I believe all of this, I just dislike the whining and the constant attempts to avoid personal responsibility when it comes to electing officials.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    The deficit isn't a problem because we hold most of our own debt, and the rate for 10 year bonds are at all time lows. Markets don't believe the deficit and debt are a problem, otherwise they wouldn't be pouring in large amounts of their own money into treasuries and bonds the way they are, while accepting small returns in exchange for safety.

    If the deficit were an actual problem, markets would leave those long term bonds and treasuries, and the rate would jump much higher. Markets don't believe the debt and deficits are a problem.

    And Social Security is a small part of the budget. There are no problems there. In fact, back in the 80's, Social Security had bigger problems, and they were fixed without any issues. Social Security is one of the most successful programs in the history of the United States.

    Now Medicare is putting a ton of drag on the budget for the very long term (if trends continue), but that's not the fault of medicare (the concept of the government paying for a needy person's health), as it's the fact that we have a terrible privately-owned-publicly-subsidized healthcare system that allows private industry to exploit everything to overcharge for medicine. I'll take Pfizer for example. They are given government protected patents that allow them to overcharge for medicine. They make pills that they charge for hundreds, if not, thousands of dollars. Due to the government given patents, no one else is allowed to make and sell those pills. If generics were allowed, those pills would probably just cost a few bucks. But since Pfizer has government patents, generics are illegal, and they can overcharge for the pill since they know the government will pay the bill, and thanks to government protection, no one else is allowed to make such a pill.

    It's really a system that allows private institutions to leech off of public tax dollars, and that is what could cause any long term problems. In fact, if the U.S. had a health system like any other industrialized country in the world, we wouldn't have a deficit, but we'd have a surplus. Here is an excellent calculator that can give you the exact numbers if you wanted to test with different countries systems:

    http://www.cepr.net/calculators/hc/hc-calculator.html

    So there exists no need to cut social programs (or "entitlements" as they're referred to). BUT there is a need to move away from the current health system of private industry leeching off of public tax money, and move into a health system that is like any other industrialized countries in the world.
    Thanks for this excellent post and the highly illuminating link to the health care calculator! It is truly unbelievable to what extent the private health care sector (including the drug industry) has been permitted to shaft the government ('the taxpayer'). Yet another national disgrace.

    As to who holds the debt-


  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Curtain View Post
    This deal will solve nothing. Significant spending cuts still need to be made.
    The CBO came out today and said the plan increases the deficit by 3.971 T over the next 10 years.

    I still don't see most of the House Republicans supporting this deal, but I think it barely passes because all of the democrats will support it and I think SOME republicans just want to get this done.

    Fox News said they need about 100 R to support this deal in order for it to go through, and they still say that they might make amendments on the bill.

    This is a terrible deal for R though, and I would probably vote against it if I was voting on it.

  11. #41
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    BREAK NEWS: Obama, Congress fail to reach fiscal cliff deal

    Criticizing medication patents in general like that shows you really don't have much experience in medication. I am a pharmacist and work with drugs for a living. Did you happen to look up how much it costs to get 1 medication to market? We are already reaching the point where drug companies are developing more "gimmicky" medications than actual new novel drugs because there is little profit in developing new drugs.

    It costs so much to develop them that there has to be huge price tag afterwards to recoup not only the development of that drug but all of the drugs that failed to make it to market. And then 3rd parties refuse to pay for them because they are more concerned about their bottom line than the patients health.

    If you want companies to develop new medications to help people you have to make it profitable to do so. They won't invest money into research if it isn't. IMO patents need to be extended for a longer period of time on unique compounds to encourage more drug development. And they actually need to start when the drug hits market and not when they file a new drug application so the research isn't rushed to give the company a longer window on the market.

    The real problem with the healthcare system is 3rd parties, who make far more money than anyone else in healthcare. There are several methods that I feel would be an upgrade (none of which either candidate supported this election), but that's for an entirely different post.

  12. #42
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    They just said on CNN that the House republicans are going to amend the bill and then send the bill back to the senate for a vote.

    They said House Republicans are PISSED about the new report that just came out over the last hour about how the bill adds 3.7 T to the deficit over the next 10 years.

  13. #43
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    The House seems ready to **** this up...come on guys do you know what compromise is at all? These guys can't take yes for an answer.
    Member of the Owlluminati!

  14. #44
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    What do the Republicans really get dbroncos? They wanted spending cuts, but it adds 3.7T to the deficit.

    They compromised and agreed to raise taxes on the wealthy, and they don't even get the spending cuts that they wanted.

    This was an awesome deal for liberals but Republicans really don't get a lot.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Curtain View Post
    This deal will solve nothing. Significant spending cuts still need to be made.
    Maybe but not to social programs (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc).

    As I stated earlier, we need a health care system similar to what other industrialized countries have. If we had that, we'd actually have a budget surplus, and we wouldn't have much of a need to be in debt (though debt is not a bad thing in it of itself).

    Cutting social spending only hurts the majority of the population, and it helps the 1%.

    The debt is NOT a problem.

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