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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    The ace is the number one starter on a teams pitching staff. Yes, every team has an ace. It is their ace, to them.




    Again, no idea why people are making up their own interpretations of what the word ace means. This is the very literal definition. Bud Norris is the ace of the Houston Astros (or Lucas Harrell) and Cole Hamels is not the ace of the Phillies.


    Use a different word if you want to describe a pitcher as one of the best pitchers in the game.
    why do we need a different word? why can't the word just evolve? ace vs number one makes a lot more sense than ace meaning number one and making up a new word
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    Do you think Bud Norris is an Ace?

    Alright.
    Do you think Bud Norris is a #1 either?? lol

  3. #48
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    To me ace means the best starting pitcher on a staff. #1 means one of the best 30ish starting pitchers in baseball. Ideally it would be exactly the top 30 starters in baseball but we don't live in a world where each team has 5 set starters making the universe of starting pitchers just 150.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifty1 69 View Post
    Do you think Bud Norris is a #1 either?? lol
    he's houston's #1..

  5. #50
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    Harrell is their #1 IMO

  6. #51
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    While it may not be right, it makes more sense for a #1 to mean a teams #1, and ace to mean top pitcher. I just don't see how you can say "Hamels is a number one but not an ace" when he isn't the #1 starter on the Phils
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    why do we need a different word? why can't the word just evolve? ace vs number one makes a lot more sense than ace meaning number one and making up a new word
    Because the word already has a definition.


    Cole Hamels is still a top pitcher in all of baseball, he just isn't an ace. He isn't the ace of the Phillies staff.

    This isn't rocket science. People understand universally the definition of a word when it is used properly.


    You could say to literally anyone that didn't know a thing about baseball, that Cole Hamels isn't an ace, and that Lucas Harrell or Bud Norris is an ace and they could look up the definition and know what you mean.

    It doesn't mean Harrell or Norris is better than Hamels. It just means they are the best pitcher on their teams staff and that Hamels isn't.


    Words evolve all the time, but right now you have about 5 different variations of what people think the word should mean. So it's not like the evolution has a common meaning that is universally understood. Ace is the best pitcher on a teams staff, 'the ace of the staff'.

  8. #53
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    King Felix over everyone.
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  9. #54
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    If the term 'ace' had a universally common and accepted meaning that was different from the literal definition in the dictionary, then I would agree with the variations of the term.

    But as it stands now, the way each broadcaster uses it in their vernacular varies. While I would agree with their use of the word since they speak to the masses, we can't just say the word has a new meaning when you have so many variations of the term.

    Words evolve all the time, that's how our language has evolved. But until a word can be accepted by the masses, it's definition and use of the word remains it's literal definition. You have to have a universally agreed upon new definition of the word for it to actually be accepted. Right now, with so many variations, it won't pick up enough steam to really be changed.


    You have people that say it's an elite pitcher, top 5-10 pitchers in the league. Then you have people that say it's the top 30 pitchers in the league. There isn't a set criteria for a variation to exist. Even broadcasters, who aren't the brightest to begin with, can't agree on a definition.


    So it needs to remain the literal definition until you get some sort of commonly agreed upon variation for the word to have a new meaning.


    Every team has one, maybe some teams view their top 2 as co-aces (certainly many teams that feel they have two equal aces). But every team has one ace. It's the ace of the staff. Has nothing to do with the league as a whole. Curt Schilling in 01 was not an ace, and Jason Hammel is an ace today.

    Use a different word that describes what you want to say to say a pitcher is elite, or a top 30 pitcher in the league. But ace belongs to the individual teams best pitcher.

  10. #55
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    Ace: Kershaw
    #1 SP: your Teams Best pitcher..

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by LASportsFan1996 View Post
    Some teams have more than one ace (Dodgers)
    Some teams have won two rings in this decade some teams haven't

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  12. #57
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    Ace means one, they are the exact same thing. This is an extremely dumb thread. In the case of Houston, Norris or Harrell are still the ace and/or number 1. That doesn't remotely mean that they are in the same class as other aces or number ones. You still have to rank every teams staff. A number 1 in Houston might be a 4 or 5 somewhere else. It is a weird system but depending on the situation and time of the season pitchers definitions change in my mind.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Because the word already has a definition.


    Cole Hamels is still a top pitcher in all of baseball, he just isn't an ace. He isn't the ace of the Phillies staff.

    This isn't rocket science. People understand universally the definition of a word when it is used properly.


    You could say to literally anyone that didn't know a thing about baseball, that Cole Hamels isn't an ace, and that Lucas Harrell or Bud Norris is an ace and they could look up the definition and know what you mean.

    It doesn't mean Harrell or Norris is better than Hamels. It just means they are the best pitcher on their teams staff and that Hamels isn't.


    Words evolve all the time, but right now you have about 5 different variations of what people think the word should mean. So it's not like the evolution has a common meaning that is universally understood. Ace is the best pitcher on a teams staff, 'the ace of the staff'.
    except you are in the minority of how it is used. seems like fair gorunds to change it
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  14. #59
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    By true definition, Jeffy had it right. But it can be subjective if it's looked at it outside the box a little.

    An "ace" on a very bad team could be a #4 on a good team. Therefore he's not a league ace, but he's a team ace. He's an ace on a bad team, but is he really a true ace in the league? Of course not.

    It looks like an ace is defined as the teams best picture, and not necessarily one of the league's best pitchers.

    Myself, when I think of an ace, I think of one of the best pitchers in the league. I also think that some of the lesser talented teams don't have an ace. It's just what they have to call their #1 pitcher. Again, this is subjective, but I don't think being the best of a bad bunch of pitchers of the team your on, should qualify them as being considered an "ace."
    Last edited by thawv; 01-03-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    except you are in the minority of how it is used. seems like fair gorunds to change it
    Then find a commonly agreed upon new definition.....which you don't have.

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