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  1. #1
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    Difference between an Ace and a #1 SP...

    Is there such thing?

    Who is an ace and whom is a #1?

  2. #2
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    Do you think Bud Norris is an Ace?

    Alright.

    And by the way, those pants, they belong to my dad.And they're not really pants,
    they're Lederhosen



  3. #3
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    An ace is defining the caliber of the pitcher. You can be an ace and not be a #1 pitcher (Zack Greinke) or be a #1 pitcher and not be an ace (Jhoulys Chacin).

  4. #4
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    An ace is among the best in the league, a #1 is among the best on his team.

    An ace may be a #1, but #1 may not be an ace.

  5. #5
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    an ace is the top starting pitcher on the team,a number 1 is any pitcher that is good enough to be a top pitcher in the league even if he isnt the ace of his staff
    Last edited by abe_froman; 12-31-2012 at 05:21 PM.

  6. #6
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    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/...3-4-5-starters
    Defining 1-2-3-4-5 Starters
    By John Sickels on Aug 7, 4:12

    It is very common when doing prospect analysis to refer to a pitcher as a "potential Number One starter" or "perhaps a Number Five starter." What exactly does that mean? Every team has five (or four, or six) starting pitchers in the rotation at any one time, but not every team has a "Number One starter" in the sense that scouts mean. Let's explore this.

    As a starting point, I'm going to take the ‘overview' of what scouts look for when they use these terms, as defined on page eight of the 2012 Baseball America Prospect Handbook, then flesh those out with my own thoughts and some examples.

    NUMBER ONE STARTER:
    **Two plus pitches
    **Average third pitch
    **Plus/plus command
    **Plus makeup

    John's Commentary: The BA list should be seen as a rough guide and a "minimum qualification". The best Number Ones have more qualities than the ones on the BA list. For me, a Number One starter is a guy who anchors your rotation, will be in line for the All-Star game most seasons, and is on the pre-season candidate list for the Cy Young Award. The exact style can vary between pitchers, but the results have to be there.

    Current examples of a Number One starter include Justin Verlander, Felix Hernandez, Clayton Kershaw, and Stephen Strasburg. Roy Halladay in his prime. Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez, and Roger Clemens were all Number One starters, although their styles differed. There aren't a lot of these guys active at any one time, certainly not enough for every team to have one. These are the guys who end up in the Hall of Fame if they last long enough.

    NUMBER TWO STARTER
    **Two plus pitches
    **Average third pitch
    **Average command
    **Average makeup

    John's Commentary: A Number Two starter is similar to a Number One, but not quite as good for a variety of reasons, perhaps not as consistent or durable as a true One.

    The dividing line between the two categories is blurry, and some Number Two starters will have Number One-quality seasons at times, although they may not sustain the performance year after year. These guys can certainly anchor your rotation. Number Twos can be considered aces for most teams, and will be on the short list for the All Star Game many seasons. A team with a Number Two in the top spot of the rotation can certainly win the World Series.

    Current examples: for me, Zack Greinke is a guy who exists right on the borderline between a very strong Number Two and a Number One, as does Gio Gonzalez. Johnny Cueto has pitched like a Number One for the last year and a half but hasn't proven to have that kind of long-term durability yet so would rank as a strong two for me. Matt Cain and Madison Bumgarner.

    You can build your staff around a Number Two starter if you don't have a full-fledged One, and most teams don't. Calling someone a Number Two is a compliment.

    NUMBER THREE STARTER
    **One plus pitch
    **Two average pitches
    **Average command
    **Average makeup

    John's Commentary: These are the guys that soak up innings for you, usually with average to slightly above-average performance, but who don't meet the standards to be a One/Two. For weaker teams, a Number Three may take the first slot in the rotation and be the de-facto ace. There is usually a fairly clear dividing line between a Number Three and Number One/Two. It's like pornography; you know it when you see it.

    This is healthy Mike Pelfrey, Jake Westbrook, Joe Blanton. Jim Lonborg. Brad Radke was a Number Three starter who became the default Number One for the Minnesota Twins in the late 1990s. Jon Lieber. Kevin Tapani. Jon Garland. Jason Hammel. Phil Hughes.

    NUMBER FOUR/FIVE STARTER
    **Command of two major league pitches
    **Average velocity
    **Consistent breaking ball
    **Decent changeup

    John's Commentary: A guy to soak up innings, but who isn't as good or consistent or durable as a solid Three. The styles here can vary wildly. Some of these guys are control artists who lack plus stuff, others have plenty of stuff but don't command it well.

    Examples are legion. Old Barry Zito. Ivan Nova. Blake Beavan. Luke Hochevar.

    Something to consider: fans are often disappointed when a prospect is referred to as a "Future Number Three starter," but that's actually a huge complement. Even calling someone a Future 4/5 isn't a bad thing: there aren't enough 1/2/3 guys to fill every major league rotation spot, and even if a guy is just going to provide 170 so-so innings, that's still valuable.

    Also note that someone can be a Number One or Two starter in his prime years, but fade into the lower category as they age and begin to lose their skills.

  7. #7
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    Some teams have more than one ace. (Giants)


    Barry Lamar Bonds. .393/.967/1.054....on 3-0 counts.

    lol, Please' top 10 p4p: Mayweather/Marquez/Pacquiao/Bradley/Cotto/Wlad/Rigondeaux/Froch/Canelo/Maidana


    Boxing Fan? Come Discuss Boxing!

  8. #8
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    Some teams have more than one ace (Dodgers)


  9. #9
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    Some teams have the best ace (Mariners)

  10. #10
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    By definition, they are the same thing.

    An ace is the best pitcher on a teams pitching staff.

    This is the literal definition.

    Cole Hamels is not an ace, Bud Norris is.


    That's why it's best to say a number one, or an ace caliber pitcher in any teams staff.

    Or to rank guys as a top 30 pitcher in the game.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Some teams have the best ace (Mariners)
    ??? Mariners???


  12. #12
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    Example:

    #1 pitchers: James Shields, Jake Peavy, Yovani Gallardo, Tim Hudson- all pitchers that are more than capable of leading a staff. When healthy, all have great stuff and big game capability.

    True Aces: Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander, Felix Hernandez, Mat Cain, Among the best starters in the game.. These guys have all the stuff and can simply dominate in any given outing.
    http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/oscar-taveras
    ~ Oscar Taveras ~ The next Phenom

  13. #13
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    ???? Felix ??.,d\d???

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by STL Don View Post
    Example:

    #1 pitchers: James Shields, Jake Peavy, Yovani Gallardo, Tim Hudson- all pitchers that are more than capable of leading a staff. When healthy, all have great stuff and big game capability.

    True Aces: Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander, Felix Hernandez, Mat Cain, Among the best starters in the game.. These guys have all the stuff and can simply dominate in any given outing.
    Not sure about that at all. Hudson isnt the #1 for ATL. Sheilds wasnt for the Rays. Peavy isnt for the Sox.

  15. #15
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    Thumbs down

    I have always thought a teams ace was their best starting pitcher. I know some consider an ace one of the elite pitchers. But I was always told, and have always thought of an ace being the teams best starter.. our ace v your ace.

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