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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedfactor View Post
    This person in another forum posted this trade idea:

    Memphis, Sacramento and Dallas 3-way

    Memphis acquires:
    Shawn Marion
    Tyreke Evans
    Roddy B

    Sacramento acquires:
    Rudy Gay
    Jerryd Bayless
    Brandan Wright

    Dallas acquires:
    DeMarcus Cousins
    Travis Outlaw
    Jimmer Fredette

    Numbers work, but how do you guys think each team makes out?
    I don't see why the Kings would trade Cousins unless every player hates him and Cousins does not want to stay there. Sigh* hopefully I wish this goes through cause hell yea I want Cousins.
    "Its never gonna be the same....."

    GIFSoup

    DMF's insight in regards to advance stats.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoMeFavors View Post
    Who pays attention to all of that? Those stats mean nothing. They are made up by someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoMeFavors View Post
    if bulls win the series ill leave this site forever
    Bulls won the series.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    This post is the kind of thing that happens when you just use your memory of the best/worst events to judge a player.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...erRatio/page/4

    Shawn Marion's turnover percentage is not bad. It's not good. It's average. So why bring it up? The only reason you'd bring it up is an attempt to bash the player. Yet the stats say you're incorrect. Humans have a tendency to exaggerate the good and the bad. In this case, clearly, as stats will prove, you just keep those in your head and not all the possessions of his that didn't end in turnovers.

    His PER is just above league average, his fg% would rank 10th among SF if he had a couple more games played (his games missed due to injury keep him from ranking, but 26 games is more than a good enough sample size), his rebounds per game would be 4th amongst small forwards, his blocks per game would be 14th, he's tied for fourth in ORtg on the Mavs and third in DRtg, and third on the team in ws/48 (behind Wright and Sarge).

    He continues to be a highly underrated, above average player. His game just isn't pretty, which is why people don't like him. It's just like the Spurs or Mavs over the last decade. They aren't walking highlight reels and neither is Marion (anymore, there was a time when he was more exciting to watch). Both advanced and traditional stats show Marion continues to be an above average player despite age leading to declining athleticism.
    Mind if I quote the bold?
    "Its never gonna be the same....."

    GIFSoup

    DMF's insight in regards to advance stats.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoMeFavors View Post
    Who pays attention to all of that? Those stats mean nothing. They are made up by someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by DoMeFavors View Post
    if bulls win the series ill leave this site forever
    Bulls won the series.

  3. #63
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    Lets get Gay and Cousins lol. Go to the Kings and Grizzlies and say hey. Here is all of our draft picks and players. Take whatever you want but Dirk and Mayo. Make this happen haha.
    @asmarks18
    Texas Rangers
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElChinoLatino View Post
    I don't see why the Kings would trade Cousins unless every player hates him and Cousins does not want to stay there. Sigh* hopefully I wish this goes through cause hell yea I want Cousins.
    It's possible. Cousins has the mind of a 10 year old

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElChinoLatino View Post
    Mind if I quote the bold?
    Go nuts.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThuglifeJ View Post
    I've watched every Mavs game this year. All I do aside from school, work, and girls is play basketball or watch NBA. I've watched every Mavs game including preseason I don't need advanced stats this isn't baseball.

    I'm not bashing Marion, he's the type of player the league needs more of honestly. But that doesn't change the fact he's only about 60-70% as productive and impactful as he was a couple years ago with the Mavs. Players get older they become less impactful for their teams especially an athletic player like Marion. Always. Okay maybe not Jordan but he probably would have if he didn't retire.

    You can tell just by watching each game he's not as impactful. He still does the same things just less effective. Im not saying he's not good or worth keeping I'm just saying he's not a lock at this point if a trade comes along.

    and this isn't baseball stats/advanced stats don't make or break an argument in the NBA where you're stats are highly based off of your usage on the team and the system.

    plus your turnover stats don't say how key/impactful the turnover was they just count how many turnovers the guy had in an entire game.
    it makes a difference if Marion turns it over from fault of a teammate 10:00 left in first quarter vs throwing the ball away on a wide open pass with 3 minutes left in the 4th right after gaining momentum.
    Let's try this facts thing again. Wanna guess how many turnovers Marion has in clutch situations? (NBA clutch statistics are defined as follows: 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points.)

    http://www.82games.com/1213/12DAL11.HTM

    Try one turnover. One. So, tell me about how awful his turnovers are...how they're so impactful... Look, I'm with you to some extent, when it comes to stats, they don't tell everything. At the same time, the things you're claiming ARE something you can prove by stats. You talk about Marion's impact...Marion has ALWAYS been a role player. Even when he was on the Suns, he wasn't the feature attraction.

    Marion is right there with guys like Iggy. Players who specialize in the less flashy parts of the game and therefore are overlooked and undervalued. Of course he isn't as good as he was two years ago. Not many players are when they're over the NBA hill (prime ends generally about 31 years old, though naturally some players last longer or decline sooner).

    The final thing is, denying stats because "this isn't baseball" is silly. If stats were so worthless, tell me why nearly every NBA team has a stats nerd on their payroll, the Mavs included. There are enough both advanced and traditional stats to very clearly define how good a player is.

    There will always be a human element and unlike most stats people, I accept that. But there's also no evidence that Marion is worse in situations that mean more. Both by the eye test and by the clutch stats I linked, there is a small drop in field goal percentage, but also a lower turnover rate.

    But as much as I appreciate what Marion does, if we can make a trade including him that makes our future look brighter, I'm all for it.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind."
    Dr. Seuss

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElChinoLatino View Post
    I don't see why the Kings would trade Cousins unless every player hates him and Cousins does not want to stay there. Sigh* hopefully I wish this goes through cause hell yea I want Cousins.
    Well it was definitely reported that some players did speak up when he returned rather early from his team suspension and told him they're tired of his bs and excuses so it better not happen again. I'm not sold all his teammates love him and vice versa.

  8. #68
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    I'm sure there is enough tension within the team him being the cause. I just wonder if they definitely might trade him and how much longer it takes until he'll lose his head once again. He's his own enemy but a highly talanted one and he can get it onto court.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzik View Post
    Let's try this facts thing again. Wanna guess how many turnovers Marion has in clutch situations? (NBA clutch statistics are defined as follows: 4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points.)

    http://www.82games.com/1213/12DAL11.HTM

    Try one turnover. One. So, tell me about how awful his turnovers are...how they're so impactful... Look, I'm with you to some extent, when it comes to stats, they don't tell everything. At the same time, the things you're claiming ARE something you can prove by stats. You talk about Marion's impact...Marion has ALWAYS been a role player. Even when he was on the Suns, he wasn't the feature attraction.

    Marion is right there with guys like Iggy. Players who specialize in the less flashy parts of the game and therefore are overlooked and undervalued. Of course he isn't as good as he was two years ago. Not many players are when they're over the NBA hill (prime ends generally about 31 years old, though naturally some players last longer or decline sooner).

    The final thing is, denying stats because "this isn't baseball" is silly. If stats were so worthless, tell me why nearly every NBA team has a stats nerd on their payroll, the Mavs included. There are enough both advanced and traditional stats to very clearly define how good a player is.

    There will always be a human element and unlike most stats people, I accept that. But there's also no evidence that Marion is worse in situations that mean more. Both by the eye test and by the clutch stats I linked, there is a small drop in field goal percentage, but also a lower turnover rate.

    But as much as I appreciate what Marion does, if we can make a trade including him that makes our future look brighter, I'm all for it.

    okay you say I'm exaggerating on Marion but you're just exaggerating what I was saying.

    All I was saying is that he's not as impactful as he was 2 years ago.
    He's also had some costly turnovers that were caused by no defensive pressure or anything. Some of his missed shots are practically turnovers in my eyes too.

    I'm not saying he's a turnover machine or anything like that. That's Collison and Mayo's job.

    All I originally did say was that he should be on the 'willing to trade' list if something better is available. Marion still has a good role on the team but it's not as important as it was 2 years ago. That is it

  10. #70
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    So we waived Roberts and really think about signing another grandpa, whom we will waive ten days after? One who's shooting is awfull too and not helping in any specific way? This roster spot is quiet a mess. At least we're leaving no stone unturned.

  11. #71
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    Mike James idea is ********. I don't care that he scored 26 points for the Legends. CDR was killin it in the DL and then got here and only averaged 2.6 in 6 games then got cut. Keep James' 37 yr old butt away from my Mavs

  12. #72
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    Conflicting rumors out there tonight that Boston is working hard on deal to land Cousins. Don't want to give up Avery Bradley. Some framework mentioned was Jeff Green, Terry, Lee and Sullinger for Cousins and Garcia

  13. #73
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  14. #74
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    And read this one too about Dirk!

    http://basketball.******.com/wiretap...e_Of_Mavericks

  15. #75
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