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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bo Sox Fan View Post
    Ok Steve Urkel.
    My glasses doesn't look like steve urkel's and are way better. Get out here with that.
    Last edited by EEasyA; 01-03-2013 at 01:13 AM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    That's how I see it as well, but I don't know how interested they'd be in Buchholz. There's a chance that Miami would rather have Doubront.

    I would rather give up Barnes than Bogaerts even if we had to add one more player in to compensate for the gap between those two though. Reason being that Bogaerts and Stanton would likely end up being one of if not the best 3, 4 punch in the MLB. But if we have to give XB up so be it, because I doubt he ends up being as good as Stanton.
    The problem with that approach is that Bogaerts is probably at least two years from MLB (IMO). There's relatively little time left for them to be the potent 3-4 punch you're hoping for unless you also sign Stanton to an extension. Obviously you'd want to extend the kid but that's an unknown (along with Bogaerts development).

    There's also the issue of your trade partner. Giving up that much production in one player, it's very likely they'll want a player with a similar ceiling coming back. A pitching-rich deal won't cut it.

    As for Buchholz, he is under contract at relatively reasonable rates through 2015, with reasonable options through 2017. That's a year longer than they'd have Stanton. My assumption is that Clay would generally pitch around 6 innings in an NL lineup and have success more like 2010 (not quite that good but lower IP counts due to the NL style of play and weaker lineups would make him look really good).

    The last point is that Barnes, RDLR, and Webster all have the chance to be very good MLB pitchers -- middle to top of the rotation. I'd rather take the chance on lights-out pitching prospects and swap freakish power hitters.

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  4. #34
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    Let's stay on topic.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSoxtober View Post
    The problem with that approach is that Bogaerts is probably at least two years from MLB (IMO). There's relatively little time left for them to be the potent 3-4 punch you're hoping for unless you also sign Stanton to an extension. Obviously you'd want to extend the kid but that's an unknown (along with Bogaerts development).

    There's also the issue of your trade partner. Giving up that much production in one player, it's very likely they'll want a player with a similar ceiling coming back. A pitching-rich deal won't cut it.

    As for Buchholz, he is under contract at relatively reasonable rates through 2015, with reasonable options through 2017. That's a year longer than they'd have Stanton. My assumption is that Clay would generally pitch around 6 innings in an NL lineup and have success more like 2010 (not quite that good but lower IP counts due to the NL style of play and weaker lineups would make him look really good).

    The last point is that Barnes, RDLR, and Webster all have the chance to be very good MLB pitchers -- middle to top of the rotation. I'd rather take the chance on lights-out pitching prospects and swap freakish power hitters.
    I have to disagree with this. I'd be pretty shocked if he didn't break ST with the team next year as our SS. He wont stay there long term, but probably has a couple years to give us there. As for resigning Stanton, it's pretty much an imperative considering the amount of payroll we freed up and the price we'd be paying just to get him.

    Miami has a track record of trading for pitching if I recall correctly. They also already have a few good young hitting specs. Yelich (A spec), Marisnick, and Ozuna are a good hitting set of outfielders coming up through their system. They'd also have WMB at third and a good catching spec. Then you have Brentz after the trade as well and he's relatively close to the majors.

    Buchholz I would love to trade in a Stanton deal, I'm in favor of dealing him one way or another (in the right deal of course). I think he's a little older than the target range of Miami, but how much that matters to them I have no idea. I'd like it if they'd be interested in him. Just a note, he averaged 6.5 innings per start this year already (6.05 career). It's just a matter of him making 30+ starts which he can't seem to do.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    I have to disagree with this. I'd be pretty shocked if he didn't break ST with the team next year as our SS. He wont stay there long term, but probably has a couple years to give us there. As for resigning Stanton, it's pretty much an imperative considering the amount of payroll we freed up and the price we'd be paying just to get him.
    Have you watched him play yet or are you basing this on speculation that focuses squarely on his offense? He spent a month at AA so he'll return there to start this season. His defense still needs work and AA is where many guys stall because of the Sox primary focus on OBP skills. His OBP at AA was almost completely driven by AVG; only one BB and three HBP in almost 100 PA; still work to do there as well.

    He may get to PAW before the year is out but I doubt that it's for much more than half a season (if that). That puts him in line to start 2014 in PAW and work into MLB later in the season. Any other move is likely because the Sox chose to sign Drew for only one season and saw no SS alternatives they liked for only a single season in 2014.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Buchholz I would love to trade in a Stanton deal, I'm in favor of dealing him one way or another (in the right deal of course). I think he's a little older than the target range of Miami, but how much that matters to them I have no idea. I'd like it if they'd be interested in him. Just a note, he averaged 6.5 innings per start this year already (6.05 career). It's just a matter of him making 30+ starts which he can't seem to do.
    My point on the IP was that the NL style typically removes pitchers earlier in favor of a PH. Only in blowouts and shutouts do SP tend to be left alone. Of course there are exceptions, but fewer in the NL than the AL. As a result, Buchholz would be less likely to be head to the DL for fatigue because he'd be less likely to string together 7-9IP outings.

  7. #37
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    Xander would have to have an extremely good season to make the team out of Spring Training next year. You're overhyping him if you think he's almost a sure bet to be a starter out of ST next year. I agree mostly with Rst's projection. He will likely spend almost the entire season at AA, with a short stint at AAA during the last month of the season if he's having a good season (his 2012 season promotion is the footprint they will follow). Then he will start 2014 in AAA, and will be called up based on need/how well he is playing.

    The only way he starts out of 2014 ST is if he puts up Lavarnway 2011/WMB 2012 numbers in AA for a couple months. Then he has to play well at AAA and get called up in September. It's a very unlikely scenario, I'd be shocked if it happened.

  8. #38
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    Look at the speed hes worked his way up so far and consider that for many top specs such as Bogaerts, AAA is the shortest stop. I like his chances. He's sort of been on the same type of path as Machado. If he continues at his pace from the end of the year in Portland I think he'll be here early next year. I think his adjustment to AA will be the biggest factor. That or his BB%, which will be something to keep an eye on.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Look at the speed hes worked his way up so far and consider that for many top specs such as Bogaerts, AAA is the shortest stop. I like his chances. He's sort of been on the same type of path as Machado. If he continues at his pace from the end of the year in Portland I think he'll be here early next year. I think his adjustment to AA will be the biggest factor. That or his BB%, which will be something to keep an eye on.
    He would need to absolutely blow everyone away in ST. They just signed Stephen drew? Think the plans gotta be drew is starting this year and bogaerts will be reevaluated next offseason.

    That being said midseason anything could happen. Xb could play out of his mind in AAA and force his way into the MLB or their could always be injuries in Boston. We will find out, but i highly doubt there are any intentions on much MLB time this year.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebrianscal View Post
    He would need to absolutely blow everyone away in ST. They just signed Stephen drew? Think the plans gotta be drew is starting this year and bogaerts will be reevaluated next offseason.

    That being said midseason anything could happen. Xb could play out of his mind in AAA and force his way into the MLB or their could always be injuries in Boston. We will find out, but i highly doubt there are any intentions on much MLB time this year.
    We're talking ST in 2014 though

  11. #41
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    Bogaerts will be called up to AAA by early June if he tears up AA at the beginning.

    He is less than 2 years away, they aren't going to let him just sit in AA because of defensive reasons at SS if he isn't going to last their anyways.

    His value is all in his offense for the most part
    Jackie Bradley Junior.... that is all

  12. #42
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    Itz gonna be so exciting

  13. #43
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    Make this infield happen by 2015!

    1B Middlebrooks
    2B Pedroia
    SS Andrus
    3B Boegarts
    WTA's Next Rising Superstar - #7 in the World


    Montreal's Sweetheart Eugenie Bouchard

    Go Genie Go!

  14. #44
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    I want Xander to take his time in the minors, no reason to rush the kid.
    The name is Amendola....

    ...Danny Amendola

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomar View Post
    Look at the speed hes worked his way up so far and consider that for many top specs such as Bogaerts, AAA is the shortest stop. I like his chances. He's sort of been on the same type of path as Machado. If he continues at his pace from the end of the year in Portland I think he'll be here early next year. I think his adjustment to AA will be the biggest factor. That or his BB%, which will be something to keep an eye on.
    I think you're making the mistake of applying what other organizations do to the Red Sox. Each organization is unique and promotes based on different philosophies. The O's, for example, may very well have been driven by market demands (Nats playing pretty damn well and O's having very few winning seasons). The Jays, by contrast, were eternally slow with prospects who inevitably flamed out; the prospect sell off was a different departure from form.

    The Sox have been VERY deliberate with their process over the past decade. With Theo at the helm they typically had a 6 week evaluation cycle and made roster moves at the end of each period. The pattern is not quite established with Cherrington but it's likely to be pretty similar given his primary responsibility on the player development side of things under Epstein.

    -Lav- is absolutely right about the likely course. The most common pattern for players moving up the chain is to earn a promotion around Aug 1 to get their feet wet at the next level. The primary exceptions to this have been college talent that was slotted a low-A Greenville and earned a quick promotion in early May.

    Thus far, Bogaerts has followed the common pattern. The most exceptional part of his development has been how early he started, not how quickly he has moved up the ladder. DSL at 17, low-A at 18, A+ at 19 (with late promotion)... basically a year at each level. There's no reason to think they'll break from the pattern.
    Last edited by RedSoxtober; 01-04-2013 at 02:16 PM.

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