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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacerlive View Post
    The ramification is that the US credit rating being downgraded and that is serious.
    we were downgraded not because our debt....we were downgraded because congress almost didn't raise the debt ceiling. raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we're increasing our spending...that's what we're doing with the budget negotiation. raising the debt ceiling means we're meeting the financial obligation we already have. by not raising it, that means you're defaulting on the money you already borrowed. our credit rating dropped because of that one time we almost didn't raise our debt ceiling and came dangerously close to defaulting on our loans.
    Last edited by FOBolous; 01-02-2013 at 12:33 PM.


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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    we were downgraded not because our debt....we were downgraded because congress almost didn't raise the debt ceiling. raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we're increasing our spending...that's what we're doing with the budget negotiation. raising the debt ceiling means we're meeting the financial obligation we already have. by not raising it, that means you're defaulting on the money you already borrowed. our credit rating dropped because of that one time we almost didn't raise our debt ceiling and came dangerously close to defaulting on our loans.
    You are absolutely correct about the cause of the downgrade.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  3. #33
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    The beauty of the Bush/Obama tax cuts were that they disproportionately benfitted the highest earners, while simultaneously throwing scraps to everyone else. The goal is to create tax cuts aimed at the rich, then claim you're "hurting the middle class" if you take them away. There were certain aspects of the cuts that literally benefitted only a fraction of 1% of the general population.

    That being said, I believe some people are on such a tight budget that they truly need that extra $50 per month. However certainly not in the majority.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FOBolous View Post
    we were downgraded not because our debt....we were downgraded because congress almost didn't raise the debt ceiling. raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean we're increasing our spending...that's what we're doing with the budget negotiation. raising the debt ceiling means we're meeting the financial obligation we already have. by not raising it, that means you're defaulting on the money you already borrowed. our credit rating dropped because of that one time we almost didn't raise our debt ceiling and came dangerously close to defaulting on our loans.
    I understand why the US was downgraded but if the assumption is that no world economist look at GDP and debt raitos as a indicator of a healthy economy then I think that assumption is false.

    Is it premature to think that the US should be worried? Well that depends on who is in office and how far they are willing to go to default on debts which is my point. We have people willing to screw with our credit score simply to win a political battle.

    Thats not fear mongering thats putting real consequences to your politcal view even if you and I disaggree with it.

    Point is GDP to debt ratios matter and of course the US is a long way off from having to worry but GDP to debt ratios take a long time to right so its not exactly premature when you look at the baby boomer population and the spiraling heath crisis we have in America.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    The beauty of the Bush/Obama tax cuts were that they disproportionately benfitted the highest earners, while simultaneously throwing scraps to everyone else. The goal is to create tax cuts aimed at the rich, then claim you're "hurting the middle class" if you take them away. There were certain aspects of the cuts that literally benefitted only a fraction of 1% of the general population.

    That being said, I believe some people are on such a tight budget that they truly need that extra $50 per month. However certainly not in the majority.
    I think the biggest problem with these "temporary" tax holidays is that when they last for 2, 5, 10 years people start to budget their lives around them. Obviously I don't feel sorry for a millionaire that has gotten used to the $100K he's received the last decade but it sucks middle class earners where everything seems to cost more and more to lose that $50.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    I think the biggest problem with these "temporary" tax holidays is that when they last for 2, 5, 10 years people start to budget their lives around them. Obviously I don't feel sorry for a millionaire that has gotten used to the $100K he's received the last decade but it sucks middle class earners where everything seems to cost more and more to lose that $50.
    Absolutely.

    I just know that when politicians argue to keep the cuts, it's the millionaires they are defending and not the people who have actually depended on that $50.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    I think the biggest problem with these "temporary" tax holidays is that when they last for 2, 5, 10 years people start to budget their lives around them. Obviously I don't feel sorry for a millionaire that has gotten used to the $100K he's received the last decade but it sucks middle class earners where everything seems to cost more and more to lose that $50.
    If we would actually stick to these things being temporary then it wouldn't be a big issue. Two years is two years, five years is five years...but we treat two years is not five years.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Schmooze View Post
    Absolutely.

    I just know that when politicians argue to keep the cuts, it's the millionaires they are defending and not the people who have actually depended on that $50.
    That is always my argument when people start in with the Socialist argument and how we've become an entitlement society, ect. Wall Street still controls our politicians on both sides and calls the shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    If we would actually stick to these things being temporary then it wouldn't be a big issue. Two years is two years, five years is five years...but we treat two years is not five years.
    I think it would make more sense to give tax breaks in bulk than monthly. Like give people $300 break around Xmas and another $300 in mid Summer. Doing that would actually stimulate the economy pretty well twice a year. Versus people just getting used to having an extra $50 every month and forgetting it's even a tax break at all.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    That is always my argument when people start in with the Socialist argument and how we've become an entitlement society, ect. Wall Street still controls our politicians on both sides and calls the shots.



    I think it would make more sense to give tax breaks in bulk than monthly. Like give people $300 break around Xmas and another $300 in mid Summer. Doing that would actually stimulate the economy pretty well twice a year. Versus people just getting used to having an extra $50 every month and forgetting it's even a tax break at all.
    From a stimulative point of view, the small cut, spread out, works better. It just gets spent. Block amounts get put into the bank.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabernetluver View Post
    From a stimulative point of view, the small cut, spread out, works better. It just gets spent. Block amounts get put into the bank.
    Is that a fact? I assumed for most middle class giving them a bulk amount around the holidays and in summer would lead to more spending. But if I'm wrong I'm wrong.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    Is that a fact? I assumed for most middle class giving them a bulk amount around the holidays and in summer would lead to more spending. But if I'm wrong I'm wrong.
    When ari, our resident PhD economist was here, he explained it in depth. I don't claim macro economic expertise, so I rely on experts.
    Here is the question of the day, does anyone think that wealthy people should pay a lower percentage of their income to taxes than middle class people? Don't argue tax brackets, just a simple question. Do you think someone earning 46 million dollars should pay a lower percentage of their income than say someone earning sixty thousand?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry34 View Post
    Is that a fact? I assumed for most middle class giving them a bulk amount around the holidays and in summer would lead to more spending. But if I'm wrong I'm wrong.
    I would argue it is. I tend to be a saver regardless but most people I know follow the outlined pattern.
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  13. #43
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    It's certainly a huge deal. My wife and I barely gross 75K a year, yet both of our paychecks went down this week? That is flat out ********

    Warren Buffet and his view on Congress is what needs to happen to fix this fiscal problem. Make them pay for their healthcare, don't keep paying them when they are out of office. This is a SERVICE to the American people, not something you can mooch off until you die.

  14. #44
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    Yea it's going to hurt people like Y2k, no doubt about it. But yes I admit this was a temp tax, I just think it should have been extended 2 more years. Unemployment is way to high for this tax to go back to it's normal level. This was a huge middle class tax cut. Both parties claim they want to help the middle class, and they failed them. It appears the republicans in congress were going to add it back and send it to the senate. But the senate ajourned and the congress had to pass it because of the fiscal cliff. It should have been in the senate version in my opinion.
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  15. #45
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    lets keep borrowing and spending money that we don't have... hopefully obama can raise that debt EVEN HIGHER!!!
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