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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradyoverrated View Post
    I disagree.

    I think we were a healthy defense away from making the playoffs (and possibly being a top-10 defense).

    We obviously need help on the offensive line, and to a lesser extent on the d-line.

    Linebackers, rb, wr, cb are ok.

    we could use a young eventual-replacement for witten.

    need a replacement for sensebaugh (matt johnson?)

    i don't see a roster in the nfl that is substantially more talented, when this roster is healthy
    1. Rosters on paper does not = success. People have to stop with this mentality.

    2. Injuries are part of management. The blame still lies on the guy running the team. Imagine this: Let's pretend a lot of the people in the military get ill and can't be on the defensive. Another attack happens. Wouldn't you blame the commander in chief for not planning ahead, having a contingency plan, or fixing the problem when it happened? Does he not deserve blame for his mismanagement?

    3. Injuries are part of the game, you have to plan for them. It's part of the job, not an excuse. I can remember when the Packers won the Super Bowl with a banged up team.


    Quote Originally Posted by bimbambum View Post
    yup, over-exaggerating and sarcasm.. sense it, it is not meant as literal as you interpret it.

    give romo the defense that ben has always had or just the pass-rush and o-line that eli has (+ the coaching that they both have) and see what happens

    I dislike this theory, because people always use this fallacy as a way to make a point, but could never prove it due to so many variables one can't see. Marino had great defenses and still couldn't get it done.


    why not draft a qb to sit and learn from tony for a few years? worked out well in GB, and let's face it - tony and favre are a lot alike

    So right!

    Quote Originally Posted by bimbambum View Post
    1. fair enough - as i said i am not perfect!

    2. yes i do think it is over-exaggerating and sarcastic. sense it, it was in an angry moment and was meant as an objection to the people who said romo is the whole problem (which i just quoted before)
    fair enough that people are tired of him, but what do you expect? no matter what you say he is a top 10 qb in this league and with the right team and coaching that is good enough to win. you don't just go out and find an elite qb.. look at 10-15 other teams in this league how hard it has been for them to find even a good qb. people should appreciate what they have instead of expecting too much..
    1. I commend and appreciate your honesty.

    2. I completely understand the emotional side of it and did realize this.

    3. Top 10 QB based on stats, not wins (big game wins). A great fantasy football player.

    4. There comes a point where you have to say he's not the right guy. Marino had a great coach and great teams throughout his career, but faltered in the big games.

    5. Please refer to the thread about "why we don't need to draft a QB" and you'll see a post of mine where i've shown that:

    Montana - Round 3 pick 82
    Warren Moon - undrafted
    Brett Favre - Round 2 pick 33
    Tom Brady - Round 6 pick 199
    Aaron Rogers - Round 1 pick 24
    Big Ben - Round 1 pick 11
    Drew Brees - Round 2 pick 32
    Jim Kelly - Round 1 pick 4
    Johnny Unitas - Round 9 pick 102
    Joe Namath - Round 1 pick 12 NFL/1st in AFL
    Bart Starr - Round 17 pick 200
    Dan Marino - Round 1 pick 21
    Roger Staubach - Round 10 pick 129
    Steve Young - Supplemental
    Sammy Baugh - Round 1 pick 6


    Here's a little stat:
    Since 1936 only 3 number 1 overall QB's have been inducted into the hall of fame:
    1. Bradshaw
    2. Aikman
    3. Elway
    *one could argue Namath due to the AFL/NFL

    2012 - Andrew Luck
    2011 - Cam Newton
    2010 - Sam Bradford
    2009 - Matt Stafford
    2007 - Jamarcus Russell
    2005 - Alex Smith
    2004 - Eli Manning
    2003 - Carson Palmer
    2002 - David Carr
    2001 - Michael Vick
    1999 - Tim Couch
    1998 - Peyton Manning
    1993 - Drew Bledsoe
    1990 - Jeff George
    1989 - Troy Aikman (HOF)
    1987 - Vinny Testaverde
    1983 - John Elway (HOF)

    * You could count Peyton as a clear HOF candidate, but everyone else on that list you can't.

    So we can clearly see from that list, other previous examples of QB's who were drafted outside of the top 3, and QB's who have sat behind someone during their rookie season or even a few seasons that you don't have to have the number 1 overall pick to find a franchise QB that not only can help lead a team to success, but can contribute to the game of football for generations.

    You have to also think about the mental pressure. A #1 overall QB has all the attention on him. He has to play week after week like he did in college. The mental strain is enormous. QB's drafted outside of the #1 overall pick, especially later on in the draft can fly under the radar so to speak. They don't face the same mental demand of #1 overall pick. A Joe Montana isn't expected to do what an Eli Manning is.

    So how can one argue that drafting a QB now is a bad move?????
    1. Rookie Contracts?
    2. Romo's greatness?
    3. Sitting a QB isn't smart?
    Hogwash!!

    Something to consider:
    Since 1965 there's been 15 Super Bowl wins for QB's drafted #1 overall vs 47 Super Bowl wins for QB's not drafted #1 overall. Of course there's other factors in play because a QB alone does not win a game, you need a solid scouting department, and etc, but the evidence clearly favors teams that draft a QB outside of number 1 more success than those that do.
    We don't have to have a QB pegged as elite out of the gate to be a franchise QB. You can find gems all throughout the draft is you have the proper front office doing the scouting and drafting.

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by baazinakon View Post
    I suppose you are just blind to his untimely mistakes then...might be selective memory or something? I dunno. I am not going to argue more though. Two games that mean something and he doesn't play very well and certainly makes untimely mistakes as he has throughout his history as a starter in the NFL. Choose not to see it if you like but that is on you. Good luck with all that.
    honestly how many qb's do you think could have done better with this team?
    i would say rodgers, brees, peyton, brady and that is it.. not trying to argue with you here, it is a legitimate question. i am curious to what you think about that?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    I am not sure who's point you are trying to back up?
    Weren't you trying to say that Romo was the best option we have had and that at our position in the draft it was hard to draft a better solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by bimbambum View Post
    why do people keep saying stats? i haven't mentioned stats one single time (i am sure i have somewhere and now someone will quote it and use it against me ) i honestly think tony did more than enough to win this game. but he can't do it alone. his teammates have to contribute as well
    I think people assume that's what you're using to define "top 10 QB", at least i know i did because there aren't any other clear reasons why he's credited as a top 10 QB.

    Well let's be fair, you can't throw 3 INTs on the road with an already banged up team and expect to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by baazinakon View Post
    I suppose you are just blind to his untimely mistakes then...might be selective memory or something? I dunno. I am not going to argue more though. Two games that mean something and he doesn't play very well and certainly makes untimely mistakes as he has throughout his history as a starter in the NFL. Choose not to see it if you like but that is on you. Good luck with all that.
    Let's be nice. bimbambum hasn't been ignorant to others, hasn't berated anyone, and spoke out of emotion. He's been honest and pleasant and has some valid points.

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01:24918391
    Quote Originally Posted by bradyoverrated View Post
    I disagree.

    I think we were a healthy defense away from making the playoffs (and possibly being a top-10 defense).

    We obviously need help on the offensive line, and to a lesser extent on the d-line.

    Linebackers, rb, wr, cb are ok.

    we could use a young eventual-replacement for witten.

    need a replacement for sensebaugh (matt johnson?)

    i don't see a roster in the nfl that is substantially more talented, when this roster is healthy
    1. Rosters on paper does not = success. People have to stop with this mentality.

    2. Injuries are part of management. The blame still lies on the guy running the team. Imagine this: Let's pretend a lot of the people in the military get ill and can't be on the defensive. Another attack happens. Wouldn't you blame the commander in chief for not planning ahead, having a contingency plan, or fixing the problem when it happened? Does he not deserve blame for his mismanagement?

    3. Injuries are part of the game, you have to plan for them. It's part of the job, not an excuse. I can remember when the Packers won the Super Bowl with a banged up team.


    Quote Originally Posted by bimbambum View Post
    yup, over-exaggerating and sarcasm.. sense it, it is not meant as literal as you interpret it.

    give romo the defense that ben has always had or just the pass-rush and o-line that eli has (+ the coaching that they both have) and see what happens

    I dislike this theory, because people always use this fallacy as a way to make a point, but could never prove it due to so many variables one can't see. Marino had great defenses and still couldn't get it done.


    why not draft a qb to sit and learn from tony for a few years? worked out well in GB, and let's face it - tony and favre are a lot alike

    So right!

    Quote Originally Posted by bimbambum View Post
    1. fair enough - as i said i am not perfect!

    2. yes i do think it is over-exaggerating and sarcastic. sense it, it was in an angry moment and was meant as an objection to the people who said romo is the whole problem (which i just quoted before)
    fair enough that people are tired of him, but what do you expect? no matter what you say he is a top 10 qb in this league and with the right team and coaching that is good enough to win. you don't just go out and find an elite qb.. look at 10-15 other teams in this league how hard it has been for them to find even a good qb. people should appreciate what they have instead of expecting too much..
    1. I commend and appreciate your honesty.

    2. I completely understand the emotional side of it and did realize this.

    3. Top 10 QB based on stats, not wins (big game wins). A great fantasy football player.

    4. There comes a point where you have to say he's not the right guy. Marino had a great coach and great teams throughout his career, but faltered in the big games.

    5. Please refer to the thread about "why we don't need to draft a QB" and you'll see a post of mine where i've shown that:

    Montana - Round 3 pick 82
    Warren Moon - undrafted
    Brett Favre - Round 2 pick 33
    Tom Brady - Round 6 pick 199
    Aaron Rogers - Round 1 pick 24
    Big Ben - Round 1 pick 11
    Drew Brees - Round 2 pick 32
    Jim Kelly - Round 1 pick 4
    Johnny Unitas - Round 9 pick 102
    Joe Namath - Round 1 pick 12 NFL/1st in AFL
    Bart Starr - Round 17 pick 200
    Dan Marino - Round 1 pick 21
    Roger Staubach - Round 10 pick 129
    Steve Young - Supplemental
    Sammy Baugh - Round 1 pick 6


    Here's a little stat:
    Since 1936 only 3 number 1 overall QB's have been inducted into the hall of fame:
    1. Bradshaw
    2. Aikman
    3. Elway
    *one could argue Namath due to the AFL/NFL

    2012 - Andrew Luck
    2011 - Cam Newton
    2010 - Sam Bradford
    2009 - Matt Stafford
    2007 - Jamarcus Russell
    2005 - Alex Smith
    2004 - Eli Manning
    2003 - Carson Palmer
    2002 - David Carr
    2001 - Michael Vick
    1999 - Tim Couch
    1998 - Peyton Manning
    1993 - Drew Bledsoe
    1990 - Jeff George
    1989 - Troy Aikman (HOF)
    1987 - Vinny Testaverde
    1983 - John Elway (HOF)

    * You could count Peyton as a clear HOF candidate, but everyone else on that list you can't.

    So we can clearly see from that list, other previous examples of QB's who were drafted outside of the top 3, and QB's who have sat behind someone during their rookie season or even a few seasons that you don't have to have the number 1 overall pick to find a franchise QB that not only can help lead a team to success, but can contribute to the game of football for generations.

    You have to also think about the mental pressure. A #1 overall QB has all the attention on him. He has to play week after week like he did in college. The mental strain is enormous. QB's drafted outside of the #1 overall pick, especially later on in the draft can fly under the radar so to speak. They don't face the same mental demand of #1 overall pick. A Joe Montana isn't expected to do what an Eli Manning is.

    So how can one argue that drafting a QB now is a bad move?????
    1. Rookie Contracts?
    2. Romo's greatness?
    3. Sitting a QB isn't smart?
    Hogwash!!

    Something to consider:
    Since 1965 there's been 15 Super Bowl wins for QB's drafted #1 overall vs 47 Super Bowl wins for QB's not drafted #1 overall. Of course there's other factors in play because a QB alone does not win a game, you need a solid scouting department, and etc, but the evidence clearly favors teams that draft a QB outside of number 1 more success than those that do.
    We don't have to have a QB pegged as elite out of the gate to be a franchise QB. You can find gems all throughout the draft if you have the proper front office doing the scouting and drafting.
    And therein lies our problem

  5. #65
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    bingo

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  6. #66
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    Someone noted that "only" 15 #1 overall drafted QBs have won SBs since 1965 which is a percentage of just under 30%. Actually sounds kind of like a number 1 pick at QB greatly enhances your chances counter to the point I think you were trying to make. True great players have been found at every stage in the draft - at every position, not just QB.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Someone noted that "only" 15 #1 overall drafted QBs have won SBs since 1965 which is a percentage of just under 30%. Actually sounds kind of like a number 1 pick at QB greatly enhances your chances counter to the point I think you were trying to make. True great players have been found at every stage in the draft - at every position, not just QB.
    You misunderstood. Only 6 #1 overall QB's have won Super Bowls (14) since 1967, not 14 QB's.

    since 1967 (mistyped) only 15 superbowls, actually 14 have been won with a starting QB who was drafted #1 overall.

    2012 - Eli
    2008 - Eli
    2007 - Peyton
    2002 - Bledsoe (Doesn't count because Brady started and won)
    1999 - Elway
    1998 - Elway
    1996 - Troy
    1994 - Troy
    1993 - Troy
    1984 - Plunkett
    1981 - Plunkett
    1980 - Bradshaw
    1979 - Bradshaw
    1976 - Bradshaw
    1975 - Bradshaw

    Total = 14 Superbowl's with #1 overall QB's. Not 14 QB's only 6 QB's.

    So, over the last 45 years
    (A). 6 #1 overall QB's have won super bowls vs. 21 not drafted #1 overall.

    (B). 14 Super Bowls for the 6 #1 overall QB's vs. 31 Super Bowls for QB's not drafted #1 overall.

    2011 - Rogers
    2010 - Brees
    2009 - Ben
    2006 - Ben
    2005 - Brady
    2004 - Brady
    2003 - Johnson
    2002 - Brady
    2001 - Dilfer
    2000 - Warner
    1997 - Favre
    1995 - Young
    1992 - Rypien
    1991 - Simms
    1990 - Montana
    1989 - Montana
    1988 - Williams
    1987 - Simms
    1986 - McMahon
    1985 - Montana
    1983 - Thiesman?
    1982 - Montana
    1978 - Staubach
    1977 - Stabler
    1974 - Griese
    1973 - Griese
    1972 - Staubach
    1971 - Unitas
    1970 - Dawson
    1969 - Nameth
    1968 - Starr
    1967 - Starr
    Last edited by thedon01; 12-31-2012 at 03:46 AM.

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  8. #68
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    1 more fact:

    1. This year (2013 playoffs) #1 overall QB's have a 25% chance vs 75% chance for non #1 overall drafted QB's.

    12 teams, only 3 have #1 overall QB's [Peyton, Luck, Smith].

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  9. #69
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    Romo played with broken rib, from the blitz hit in 2nd q., twitter/blogs reporting

  10. #70
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    Can we just close this thread?

    titties

  11. #71
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    why?

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  12. #72
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    #teamRomo

    I'm not getting into this but as long as its civil fans can discuss +/- of Tony as a QB.

  13. #73
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    so far so good

    "
    No Idea Why Ines Sainz Was Her assed"

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01 View Post
    1. I commend and appreciate your honesty.


    2. I completely understand the emotional side of it and did realize this.


    3. Top 10 QB based on stats, not wins (big game wins). A great fantasy football player.
    I am basing this of one thing: i can't find 10 QB's that i would rather have in this league than Tony Romo. Can you?

    4. There comes a point where you have to say he's not the right guy. Marino had a great coach and great teams throughout his career, but faltered in the big games.
    Correct me if I am wrong, I don't live in America nor have i watched football for many years so I might be wrong, but I though Marino was considered on of the best QB's ever despite having no ring?

    5. Please refer to the thread about "why we don't need to draft a QB" and you'll see a post of mine where i've shown that:



    We don't have to have a QB pegged as elite out of the gate to be a franchise QB. You can find gems all throughout the draft is you have the proper front office doing the scouting and drafting.
    I never said I don't want to draft a QB outside the #1 pick. Actually I am a fan of drafting a QB to groom under Romo. I just don't think it is smart to throw away a top 10 QB (my opinion) without having a good replacement
    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01 View Post
    I think people assume that's what you're using to define "top 10 QB", at least i know i did because there aren't any other clear reasons why he's credited as a top 10 QB.
    As I said above I can't find 10 I'd rather have.

    Well let's be fair, you can't throw 3 INTs on the road with an already banged up team and expect to win.
    Agree, Romo messed up yesterday and deserves a lot of blame.
    I dislike this theory, because people always use this fallacy as a way to make a point, but could never prove it due to so many variables one can't see. Marino had great defenses and still couldn't get it done.
    Right, we can't know how Romo would have turned out on the Steelers or how Eli could have turned out here. One thing I know for sure though, is that since 2009 when I started following the Cowboys, Romo hasn't had a good HC, he hasn't had a good O-line and he hasn't had a really good defense

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedon01 View Post
    why?
    I honestly didn't read any comments, I just read what the op said and figured there would be nothing but arguing and stuff. I'm actually a bit surprised there is actual debating going on here.

    titties

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