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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Net Warrior View Post
    Is pass rusher the most risky position to try for in the draft or am I just gun-shy?

    With our needs on O I'd just as soon go for a safe O-line pick....and we can even move back a few spots to do that. A very low risk win win.
    I think either a hybrid DE/OLB and a QB are the riskiest picks. O-line is definitely a safer pick. If the Jets still want a run first offense, then trading back for a guard like Warmack makes sense.

  2. #362
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    Just so I get this straight; with almost everyone (many) wanting a pass rusher with our 1st round pick - then you all must agree that Coples will probably never become a pass rushing force, as well as Wilkerson - right?

    What makes anyone think that, as we have missed on so many "pass rushers" (it's not just Ghoston - it's Bryan Thomas, Dewayne Robertson (yes, he was a DT - but he was drafted to be "our Warren Sapp," instead, he was just a sap. Then there's our last 2 1st round draft picks - who I think might become good 3-4 DEs that can pass rush better than most - if they can get 15 sacks between them - and still control the run - wow!), do WE REALLY WANT TO TRY AGAIN - especially when our offense is one of the weakest in the league????

    We do need LB's - (pleural) - so if we can't get Warmack or Joeckle - then I'm OK trading back and getting a LB that can be a good pass rusher (but not with our highest pick) - but in our LB corps - we need side-line to side-line speed, and if that comes with a great pass rush motor - OK.

    Doesn't it just seem a little misplaced to spend our 4th 1st round pick IN A ROW (2010 - ?2013) on defense - as well as our 2nd available pick in 2011 (3rd rounder Kenrick-should'a aded a "d" Ellis - who has also been a very questionable pick).

    We have one of the worst offenses in the league, and 'um - didn't everyone see this weekend that offense wins in this league? Not to mention that our O-line - which was the biggest reason for our offensive success in 2009 - 2010, and we'll be losing B. Moore (almost certainly), and Matt Slauson - who is a little better than most give him credit for - but MrT screwed him so bad this year by cutting his salary almost in half, and even though he's an average to slightly above average LG - he will get a much better offer from someone else (I think, and unless he is truly "a Jet" and wants to stay - which I just can't see as they made him sit, interrupting the O-line chemistry, and played Vlad "he is a total bust" Ducasse, and stole his money - if I were him, I couldn't wait until FA opens).

    News flash - Austin Howard was a bottom tier RT this year.

    We will need 2 new Guards, and an upgrade @ RT, AND we can't afford to pay any veteran - so we will be starting at least 2 new O-lineman, and since we can only afford second hand trash, or DRAFT THEM - WHY WOULDN'T OUR TOP RESOURCES IN THIS DRAFT GO TO THE O-line?

    I don't see how we can get them anywhere else, and ideally, we need an upgrade @ RT - so it's possible we could start 3 new O-lineman (but we won't because they're going to think that Austin Howard is serviceable - and he did play the whole season - not always very good - but he played - AND the thing that worries me even more than that - is they're going to think that DuCasse is a starting caliber LG - and that is a JOKE.

    So talk sexy draft picks - but our biggest need is on the O-line, and if there is some way that we can land Alex Smith in FA - then it makes upgrading the O-line even more important.

    Hey - if REX is such a defensive genius (as long as we stop letting him pick the actual people) then he should be able to work with the 2 safeties we drafted last year - 6th round FS Josh Bush (a little small at 5'11" but 208 and ran a 4.42 40 @ the combine - and then a 4.59 for a combo of 4.51), and 7th round Antonio Allen @ SS (if, and probably most likely - we won't be able to keep L. Landry - he has a "no franchise tag" clause in his 1 year deal with us, and he got more than 3 million for this year, and that was with GREAT QUESTION whether he would even be able to play with any regularity).

    Hey - Bill Belichik does this all the time - so do the Giants, so do the Steelers - it's time REX develop some of our own players from within, and guess what - Caleb Slaughterhouse, and Vlad The-asse aren't going to be 2 guys that can do that - especially with out 30th ranked offense. Sure, Sanchez regressed a ton, and played like my 7 year old daughter (actually, she can't throw it as far, but she's more accurate, and more confident), but with just D'Brick and Mangold - and I know we'll have to throw in A. Howard (because he's cheap!) - Alex Smith would look like he did before the 49ers developed one of the top O-lines in the league, with a few great RBs, and an All Pro TE, and Crabtree developing into a Pro Bowl type WR - if he came here. OH YEA - and are we going to keep Keller, and is that a good idea - NOT ON A BIG CONTRACT! We will (hopefully they come back healthy, and better) have Holmes, Kerley, and S. Hill - and unless we draft, or find some great undrafted FA - we'll probably just have Bilal Powell, and Joe McKnight as out top RBs. AND PEOPLE WANT US TO DRAFT ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL????? I didn't think so - oh yeah, and another thing - Mark Sanchez will be the highest paid QB on our team - and unless we get lucky with A. Smith, or some 2nd-3rd round QB - look out because he may well be our starter next year - so what side of the ball really needs the most help. Take Sanchez out of the equation (which we can't), and we still need the most help on offense.

    I would just die (figuratively) to see us draft @ #9 some LB that can pass rush - and see him turn out like Ghoston, B. Thomas, D. Robertson, or wait - who was going to be "our savior pass rushing this year?" That's right, super-bust Aaron Maybin - but this is the guy REX was counting on - OOPS - and you want him picking another defensive player with the 1st round?

    Sorry, I could be all wet, I still have a friggin' fever, and I'm angry because my "Flu Shot" failed me, but I think I'm on to something pretty serious, AND - I would still be thrilled if we can just land a good GM, and a good OC (KOW)!

    GO JETS!!!

  3. #363
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    Oops!

    GO JETS!!!
    Last edited by jetsfansince'67; 01-14-2013 at 06:51 PM.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajgmc59 View Post
    I think either a hybrid DE/OLB and a QB are the riskiest picks. O-line is definitely a safer pick. If the Jets still want a run first offense, then trading back for a guard like Warmack makes sense.
    How far "back" do you think Warmack will fall - out of the top 10! Out of the top 20? - I doubt he gets out of the top 10 - in fact - I think we would be fortunate to be able to get him with the 9th pick.

    Chance Warmack is a top 10 talent for in entire draft on almost every "experts" board, and a top 5 pick in many (Todd McShay has him ranked 3rd in the draft class, Kiper has him @ 7th). This is a mammoth-man, with great athleticism! Joeckel is 6th and 5th with McShay and Kiper respectively! OUR OFFENSE IS ONE OF THE WORST IN THE LEAGUE - and it all starts UP FRONT!

    GO JETS!!!

  5. #365
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    Great post jfs67. I differ with you just a bit. I think Howard is better than you're giving credit and I think Decausse is a bit better than you give credit. Plus they both have some upside. I think we can actually count on Howard. Ducasse, yeah, let's all cross our fingers.

  6. #366
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    Howard is **** in pass protection, and we can't rely on Vlad

    But I disagree 67. We have to drop B Thomas, and Pace. Where we are picking we have a shot at getting a special player on defense. Which we can use because we will have a huge hole in the middle of our defense. And potentially make our defense elite again.

    What this draft has is good offensive linemen outside of the 1st round. Other then Joeckel (Warmack is close to this, but not on his level) there is no lineman we have to take with the 9th pick if he is available. In fact they all should be there other then Joeckel.

    Not that I would be mad with Warmack, but the logic is there to go Line Backer. Oh by the way we have to cut Scott too, so if we do trade down a ILB also makes sense.
    Last edited by aNYer; 01-14-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Net Warrior View Post
    Great post jfs67. I differ with you just a bit. I think Howard is better than you're giving credit and I think Decausse is a bit better than you give credit. Plus they both have some upside. I think we can actually count on Howard. Ducasse, yeah, let's all cross our fingers.
    I hope you're right, I really really do. I think we'll probably keep A. Howard @ RT, and I hope he can develop into a good RT.

    As far as DucASSe is concerned - I have serious doubts about Vlad. He now has 3 years of experience under his belt, and although he appears to be an adequate run blocker, from all accounts - his playing time was forced. He is not good in pass protection, and he isn't very bright.

    I could be wrong about Ducasse. I really hope I am, but I don't think so.

    GO JETS!!!

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsfansince'67 View Post
    Just so I get this straight; with almost everyone (many) wanting a pass rusher with our 1st round pick - then you all must agree that Coples will probably never become a pass rushing force, as well as Wilkerson - right?

    What makes anyone think that, as we have missed on so many "pass rushers" (it's not just Ghoston - it's Bryan Thomas, Dewayne Robertson (yes, he was a DT - but he was drafted to be "our Warren Sapp," instead, he was just a sap. Then there's our last 2 1st round draft picks - who I think might become good 3-4 DEs that can pass rush better than most - if they can get 15 sacks between them - and still control the run - wow!), do WE REALLY WANT TO TRY AGAIN - especially when our offense is one of the weakest in the league????

    We do need LB's - (pleural) - so if we can't get Warmack or Joeckle - then I'm OK trading back and getting a LB that can be a good pass rusher (but not with our highest pick) - but in our LB corps - we need side-line to side-line speed, and if that comes with a great pass rush motor - OK.

    Doesn't it just seem a little misplaced to spend our 4th 1st round pick IN A ROW (2010 - ?2013) on defense - as well as our 2nd available pick in 2011 (3rd rounder Kenrick-should'a aded a "d" Ellis - who has also been a very questionable pick).

    We have one of the worst offenses in the league, and 'um - didn't everyone see this weekend that offense wins in this league? Not to mention that our O-line - which was the biggest reason for our offensive success in 2009 - 2010, and we'll be losing B. Moore (almost certainly), and Matt Slauson - who is a little better than most give him credit for - but MrT screwed him so bad this year by cutting his salary almost in half, and even though he's an average to slightly above average LG - he will get a much better offer from someone else (I think, and unless he is truly "a Jet" and wants to stay - which I just can't see as they made him sit, interrupting the O-line chemistry, and played Vlad "he is a total bust" Ducasse, and stole his money - if I were him, I couldn't wait until FA opens).

    News flash - Austin Howard was a bottom tier RT this year.

    We will need 2 new Guards, and an upgrade @ RT, AND we can't afford to pay any veteran - so we will be starting at least 2 new O-lineman, and since we can only afford second hand trash, or DRAFT THEM - WHY WOULDN'T OUR TOP RESOURCES IN THIS DRAFT GO TO THE O-line?

    I don't see how we can get them anywhere else, and ideally, we need an upgrade @ RT - so it's possible we could start 3 new O-lineman (but we won't because they're going to think that Austin Howard is serviceable - and he did play the whole season - not always very good - but he played - AND the thing that worries me even more than that - is they're going to think that DuCasse is a starting caliber LG - and that is a JOKE.

    So talk sexy draft picks - but our biggest need is on the O-line, and if there is some way that we can land Alex Smith in FA - then it makes upgrading the O-line even more important.

    Hey - if REX is such a defensive genius (as long as we stop letting him pick the actual people) then he should be able to work with the 2 safeties we drafted last year - 6th round FS Josh Bush (a little small at 5'11" but 208 and ran a 4.42 40 @ the combine - and then a 4.59 for a combo of 4.51), and 7th round Antonio Allen @ SS (if, and probably most likely - we won't be able to keep L. Landry - he has a "no franchise tag" clause in his 1 year deal with us, and he got more than 3 million for this year, and that was with GREAT QUESTION whether he would even be able to play with any regularity).

    Hey - Bill Belichik does this all the time - so do the Giants, so do the Steelers - it's time REX develop some of our own players from within, and guess what - Caleb Slaughterhouse, and Vlad The-asse aren't going to be 2 guys that can do that - especially with out 30th ranked offense. Sure, Sanchez regressed a ton, and played like my 7 year old daughter (actually, she can't throw it as far, but she's more accurate, and more confident), but with just D'Brick and Mangold - and I know we'll have to throw in A. Howard (because he's cheap!) - Alex Smith would look like he did before the 49ers developed one of the top O-lines in the league, with a few great RBs, and an All Pro TE, and Crabtree developing into a Pro Bowl type WR - if he came here. OH YEA - and are we going to keep Keller, and is that a good idea - NOT ON A BIG CONTRACT! We will (hopefully they come back healthy, and better) have Holmes, Kerley, and S. Hill - and unless we draft, or find some great undrafted FA - we'll probably just have Bilal Powell, and Joe McKnight as out top RBs. AND PEOPLE WANT US TO DRAFT ON THE DEFENSIVE SIDE OF THE BALL????? I didn't think so - oh yeah, and another thing - Mark Sanchez will be the highest paid QB on our team - and unless we get lucky with A. Smith, or some 2nd-3rd round QB - look out because he may well be our starter next year - so what side of the ball really needs the most help. Take Sanchez out of the equation (which we can't), and we still need the most help on offense.

    I would just die (figuratively) to see us draft @ #9 some LB that can pass rush - and see him turn out like Ghoston, B. Thomas, D. Robertson, or wait - who was going to be "our savior pass rushing this year?" That's right, super-bust Aaron Maybin - but this is the guy REX was counting on - OOPS - and you want him picking another defensive player with the 1st round?

    Sorry, I could be all wet, I still have a friggin' fever, and I'm angry because my "Flu Shot" failed me, but I think I'm on to something pretty serious, AND - I would still be thrilled if we can just land a good GM, and a good OC (KOW)!

    GO JETS!!!
    Agree 100%. Like I have said in other threads: 8 teams this weekend 276 points. The NY Jets all season, 281. Yes, our offense is bad! I am all for Warmack at #9. I know it isn't a "sexy" pick, but guard is a HUGE need and if we have the chance to get the best one in the draft, so be it!
    PSD's Muhammad Wilkerson!!!

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccugrad1 View Post
    Agree 100%. Like I have said in other threads: 8 teams this weekend 276 points. The NY Jets all season, 281. Yes, our offense is bad! I am all for Warmack at #9. I know it isn't a "sexy" pick, but guard is a HUGE need and if we have the chance to get the best one in the draft, so be it!
    Right on!

    GO JETS!!!

  10. #370
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    I understand our main concern is offense but when it comes to this draft and where we pick in the 1st round, I think defense has to be the target here (I don't think I need to explain myself here). Of course the offense is a **** hole but in my opinion the prospects in this draft on offense are far deeper then it is on defense. So why not draft an OLB in the 1st which is and will be a huge need once Pace and Thomas are cut and in the rest of the draft target offensive players. Also, a QB in round 2 would be a bad idea because none of these guys have the athletic ability to produce on the field. Not to mention these guys show bad decision making and look average at best. Whoever the QB is next year will only be as good as the personnel is around him. So should we draft a QB in round 2 who will be killed by our lack of running game and protection? Or should we wait it out a year and roll with Sanchez, give him better weapons and then cut him allowing us to draft a QB who in next years draft will have more promise then any of the guys in this years. Ill go for the later.

    Therefore, draft a pass rusher which is a HUGE!!!!! need and build the offense for Sanchez and the guy who will be drafted and starting in the future.
    Last edited by JetsNation24; 01-14-2013 at 11:08 PM.

    Desean "Jet" Jackson

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by JetsNation24 View Post
    I understand our main concern is offense but when it comes to this draft and where we pick in the 1st round, I think defense has to be the target here (I don't think I need to explain myself here). Of course the offense is a **** hole but in my opinion the prospects in this draft on offense are far deeper then it is on defense. So why not draft an OLB in the 1st which is and will be a huge need once Pace and Thomas are cut and in the rest of the draft target offensive players. Also, a QB in round 2 would be a bad idea because none of these guys have the athletic ability to produce on the field. Not to mention these guys show bad decision making and look average at best. Whoever the QB is next year will only be as good as the personnel is around him. So should we draft a QB in round 2 who will be killed by our lack of running game and protection? Or should we wait it out a year and roll with Sanchez, give him better weapons and then cut him allowing us to draft a QB who in next years draft will have more promise then any of the guys in this years. Ill go for the later.

    Therefore, draft a pass rusher which is a HUGE!!!!! need and build the offense for Sanchez and the guy who will be drafted and starting in the future.
    The plan of going with Sanchez is AKA tanking. I want no part of it.

    We can go offense moving back on 1st and getting a 2nd 2nd for more and more offense. OLB/ILB are deep this year so pick up one each at 3rd and 4th. We have Harris so we'll need McIntire, Magua, or Davis to step up or at least be depth guys. We'll also have Baker comming off IR as a "halfbaked" skill player.

  12. #372
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    Completely agree with that. We have to look at the team as a whole. Who ever the next GM is has to see the big picture. Obviously we need to fix the offense, but we have to remain a good team. And an impact play on defense will still matter. And we will have picks better suited to use on an offensive player.

    And if we can't draft a QB worth drafting then burning an early round pick on one and hoping he becomes more then it appears anyone is capable of becoming right now seems pointless.

    We can always build a good offense bring in a vet and then try and find THE guy next season.

    Its not tanking if your actively trying to improve your team.
    Last edited by aNYer; 01-14-2013 at 11:38 PM.

  13. #373
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    We need a pass rusher It'll help our offense get more chances to get on the field if we can get a good pass rusher, someone to cause forced throws that can leans into int's or make a sack on 3rd down

    Drafting an Olb pass rusher is not much of taking a chance we have drafted good in the past we did draft the player that is the active-playing sack leader in the league

    I think this team needs veteran offensive players with no real leaders on offense a rookie won't step up right away, a rookie can fit in on the deffense

    Plus with Vlad getting the playtime he received I think they believe in him gotta give him a chance and Howard wasn't an all-pro but he wasn't terrible he was more like average and I'll take that we only need 1 guard spot and could be filled with anybody productive in free agency

    No QB is worth a 1st for us Geno will be gone before us, and Nassib too who will gets the Tannenhill treatment, Barkley another USC ok no, Wilson all I think is concussion and Sanchez played good this season until he most likely got a concussion, and Glennon is not worth a top 25 pick too much of a chance

    There's no first round RB and no top 20 safety

    Best first round pick for us would be a pass rusher it would help Wilson in coverage

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Net Warrior View Post
    Is pass rusher the most risky position to try for in the draft or am I just gun-shy?

    With our needs on O I'd just as soon go for a safe O-line pick....and we can even move back a few spots to do that. A very low risk win win.
    You're gun shy.

  15. #375
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    This new PSD is going to take awhile to get use too

    Desean "Jet" Jackson

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