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Thread: Drug use

  1. #1
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    Drug use

    Would you be for or against the decriminalization of all drug use and possession, the elimination of the prescription desk, (all drugs sold over-the-counter) BUT a tightening of punishment for crimes committed while on drugs?

    You would or might still get a prescription from your doctor, but the purchase would be an over-the-counter.

    Where do you stand on the issue of drugs and their possession and use?
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  2. #2
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    I generally think that people should be able to use recreational drugs.

    But I do think that certain drugs should require a prescription such as pain killers.

    I guess the way I look at it is legal by default and then present me a case why it should be illegal, not the other way around.
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  3. #3
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    Yes, I would be for it. Virtually every problem caused by drugs is exacerbated by drug prohibition. The problems that we now consider to be the reasons for prohibition were almost nonexistent before prohibition.

    The fact of the matter is that people are going to use drugs. They've been illegal for quite a long time now; it's had no discernible deterrent effect. If people are going to use them anyway, we need to try to minimise the harm that they cause. Take heroin for example. The biggest dangers associated with using heroin are adulterants, unclean needles, and variations in purity. If addicts bought pure heroin from pharmacies, with clean needles and dosage instructions, it really wouldn't be that dangerous.
    And drugs could be taxed heavily and still sold far below current black market prices. This would mean drug addicts would have no reason to resort to crime to pay for a fix.
    You would also destroy, practically overnight, most organized crime. Drugs provide the income for all sorts of criminal organizations, even terrorism. They're really the only people who actually benefit from prohibition.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Longhornfan1234 View Post
    Yes, I would be for it. Virtually every problem caused by drugs is exacerbated by drug prohibition. The problems that we now consider to be the reasons for prohibition were almost nonexistent before prohibition.

    The fact of the matter is that people are going to use drugs. They've been illegal for quite a long time now; it's had no discernible deterrent effect. If people are going to use them anyway, we need to try to minimise the harm that they cause. Take heroin for example. The biggest dangers associated with using heroin are adulterants, unclean needles, and variations in purity. If addicts bought pure heroin from pharmacies, with clean needles and dosage instructions, it really wouldn't be that dangerous.
    And drugs could be taxed heavily and still sold far below current black market prices. This would mean drug addicts would have no reason to resort to crime to pay for a fix.
    You would also destroy, practically overnight, most organized crime. Drugs provide the income for all sorts of criminal organizations, even terrorism. They're really the only people who actually benefit from prohibition.
    I'm pretty sure that I agree with all of this.

    Even though I personally disagree with their use, I believe you need much more than personal disagreement to make something illegal. There are drugs, mostly prescription ones that do represent a real risk to those who use them and hence I support the requirement that you go to a doctor to get them. But that doesn't mean that you can ban them and think it works.
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    heres my fix.
    decriminalization of all recreational drugs.
    all pertenint alcohol related laws apply, driving, boating, operating machines, minors,we all are versed in the rules pretty much right?

    Under the influence @ work, stays the same, but for a terminable offense the quantity must be such to imply an impairment AT WORK.

    then you have greater outreach for people who become addicts.
    The overwhelming majority of users are what is decribed as non problematic, even if they are addicted. that means they function. Go to work, pay their bills, take care of the kids, etc.
    If someone feels like they are getting out of hand, then we have more open and accepting recovery programs.
    If someone just goes all crackhead and just cant maintain, then we have in patient treatment with increasing duration. 3 months first offense, 6, 12, 18, 24 etc.
    eventually at the point they have been in treatment for three solid years, im thinking they are pretty well sick and tired of the BS, if nothing else they are so far removed from the Drug seeking behaviour that they should be in a much better place to "just say no".

    In any event, incarcerating people for Drug crimes is obscene.
    there are three strike convicts in prison FOR LIFE over weed!
    How the F is that right?
    we do some stupidass stuff.

  6. #6
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    Building on your third paragraph, if someone is addicted to a drug that is illegal they are much less likely to seek out treatment to get themselves clean because they are addicted to an illegal drug. If they are now addicted to a drug that is legal, they won't be afraid to get help.
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  7. #7
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    legalize it and regulate it. If you are on the chemicals (cocaine and byproducts,heroin,mech) let it be closely monitor by a doctor or agency. They shouldn't be given out like cough drops. Anything that can be grow and immediately used (pot, mushrooms) is up to the individuals. They can keep it private. Anybody on chemicals must take 12-steps programs to get off, this hand-out isn't going to be a way of life. Anybody catch doing drug sells, or laundering or whatever heavy fines and jail time.

    Purpose of this is to kill the drug cartel profit margin, cut corruption in banking and law enforement. Decrease the prison popuiation, and focus on drug treatment for addicts. The major push would be to control the drugs in poverty-stricken neighborhood, higher education campus and any place that has a strong drug culture with the focus on treatment instead of punishment. When it comes to drugs, we have to understand how different section of society uses. The rich and well-off over medicate on presciption drugs, while the poor self-medicate on illegal drugs. Both areas should be look at and dealt with.
    Last edited by WES445; 12-30-2012 at 01:46 PM.

  8. #8
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    I'm for decriminalizing all recreational drugs at the age of 21 and providing that driving while impaired or on the influence of any motor-skills-challenging drug is still a crime, but I would want the penalties for driving under the influence to be extremely increased.

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    Here's an excerpt from a cracked article that changed the way I view drug policy. Not sure what to conclude from it but it dissuaded me from the "legalize it maaaan, prohibition was horrible in every way and it's responsible for every bad thing in America maaaan."

    "

    People think of America's Prohibition in the '20s as one hilarious, bloody failure. Pop-culture images of rumrunners and speakeasies depict an America that not only gave zero ****s about the outlawing of alcohol, but also handed power and wealth to murderous gangsters like Al Capone.

    So if outlawing alcohol was one great big violent mistake, then it isn't a stretch to argue that the same thing goes for drug prohibition. And since lifting Prohibition fixed most of the problems that alcohol had caused, we should lift the ban on all the other drugs too. You know, just like they recently did in Portugal where, as any stoner on the Internet will tell you, decriminalization has been a huge success.

    But Actually ...

    We're not going to argue about whether Prohibition was right or wrong. But that's different from asking whether or not it succeeded. And, as far as anyone can tell, Prohibition pretty much did exactly what it was designed to do.

    After all, you would expect that the measure of Prohibition's "success" would be the significant decrease of alcohol consumption during that time. And it did -- by 30 to 50 percent. Despite the fact that it didn't eliminate alcoholism altogether, Prohibition did sharply curb the number of deaths and arrests related to alcohol, which is what they wanted in the first place.

    But what about all the organized crime that suddenly appeared along with Prohibition? Well actually, it didn't. Organized crime existed at pretty much the same level as before, during and after Prohibition. Scarface may have started selling whiskey as well as cocaine, but the gangster employment rate didn't exactly skyrocket. Nor can it be said to have been a more violent time -- the murder rate actually leveled off during Prohibition.

    When people talk about what an embarrassing mistake Prohibition was, they usually cite the fact that it's the only time in American history that a constitutional amendment has been repealed, like we just sort of awkwardly swept it under the living room rug and asked everyone not to stare at the bulge. But really, the repeal had little to do with any perception that Prohibition had failed. It had much more to do with the fact that we simply changed our mind. You know, like in a democracy.

    But even if we concede that Prohibition worked the way it was expected to, we still have Portugal to look up to, right? In 2001, they decriminalized all drugs, and the Portuguese people have responded like rational adults to this new Valhalla of illicit substances.

    Sorry again. "Decriminalization" of drugs isn't the same as legalizing them. So before you buy a one-way plane ticket, understand that making, selling or having more than a few days' supply of drugs on you can still get you a prison sentence. The only real difference is that if you get caught doing drugs, they won't send you to jail; but you'll still have to face a panel of psychologists, social workers and legal advisers. Presumably your mother will be there too, and she'll be very disappointed in you.

    So, Portugal's drug abuse rates didn't go down because drugs are as readily available as liquor, but because addicts are referred to a treatment facility. Such policies may work in America, but don't expect the full-frontal-nudity version of drug legalization to hit here any time soon. The best you can hope for is Cinemax After Dark.

    "

    Read more: http://www.cracked.com/article_20067...#ixzz2GZ5D3YBf

  10. #10
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    Some great points made here.

    Decriminalization is a bit different than outright legalization.

    I would expect some significant reductions in crimes AND what is perceived as crimes. Things like possession for, say, personal use would not be illegal. Many crimes related to stealing the money needed to feed a habit at the onerous rates of street drugs would be reduced, at least in theory.

    But, there would be a downside as well. In some cases there would be increases in crime, and some areas significantly. More people would use drugs. Take away the illegality and more would use. That would increase, at some level, using drugs on the job, driving, etc. More people would be addicts and some that are alcoholics now would have easy access to drugs and could/would end up drug users as well.

    But, if you need to pick up some penicillin, some Nexium, something for pain management for cancer patients or some drug you normally use on a regular basis, just go pick it up. The savings could be significant.

    would we have too many people self medicating? Taking the wrong drugs occasionally for some serious conditions? Probably. But, would the ends justify the means? Would the upside of access and decriminalization outweigh the downside of self medication with less than complete information and increased recreational use?
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  11. #11
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    When prohibition ended, people didn't run out to drink beer just because it was now legal. It will be the same with drugs. If you didn't use while it was illegal, chance are you won't use when it is legal. The main problem with the drug war is the unregulate availablility of drugs. Right now, any jr high student can tell you where you can get any drug you want. Hell, he would get it for you since he making a run. It was the same way with liquour doing prohibition. By legalize it, society can regulate it's availablilty like liquor. You remove the criminal element that is selling to anybody with the cash.

    So it is pure nonsense and government proganda that more people will use if drugs were legalize. It didn't happen in the netherlands, or any other place that lessen the punishment for drug use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    When prohibition ended, people didn't run out to drink beer just because it was now legal. It will be the same with drugs. If you didn't use while it was illegal, chance are you won't use when it is legal. The main problem with the drug war is the unregulate availablility of drugs. Right now, any jr high student can tell you where you can get any drug you want. Hell, he would get it for you since he making a run. It was the same way with liquour doing prohibition. By legalize it, society can regulate it's availablilty like liquor. You remove the criminal element that is selling to anybody with the cash.

    So it is pure nonsense and government proganda that more people will use if drugs were legalize. It didn't happen in the netherlands, or any other place that lessen the punishment for drug use.
    Whether more use it or now is not relevant, some drugs nobody should be using. People think using meth, heroin etc is a victimless crime when it is in fact far from it. Over 85% of the thefts and 90% of the robberies we investigate are drug related. Users cannot support their habit through legitimate means, and therefore perpetrate these crimes to support the habit. Would the price of drugs go down if legalized? I highly doubt it, but even if it was cut by 50%, we still would have these problems.
    For the record I'm not including marijuana in this conversation, I've got no problem with that being legalized...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by americaspasttim View Post
    Whether more use it or now is not relevant, some drugs nobody should be using. People think using meth, heroin etc is a victimless crime when it is in fact far from it. Over 85% of the thefts and 90% of the robberies we investigate are drug related. Users cannot support their habit through legitimate means, and therefore perpetrate these crimes to support the habit. Would the price of drugs go down if legalized? I highly doubt it, but even if it was cut by 50%, we still would have these problems.
    For the record I'm not including marijuana in this conversation, I've got no problem with that being legalized...
    I dont see how that changes with those drugs being legal or illegal. There are plenty of users who don't resort to crimes. And if we spent less on law enforcement and more on treatment there would be less people who go that far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    heres my fix.
    decriminalization of all recreational drugs.
    all pertenint alcohol related laws apply, driving, boating, operating machines, minors,we all are versed in the rules pretty much right?

    Under the influence @ work, stays the same, but for a terminable offense the quantity must be such to imply an impairment AT WORK.

    then you have greater outreach for people who become addicts.
    The overwhelming majority of users are what is decribed as non problematic, even if they are addicted. that means they function. Go to work, pay their bills, take care of the kids, etc.
    If someone feels like they are getting out of hand, then we have more open and accepting recovery programs.
    If someone just goes all crackhead and just cant maintain, then we have in patient treatment with increasing duration. 3 months first offense, 6, 12, 18, 24 etc.
    eventually at the point they have been in treatment for three solid years, im thinking they are pretty well sick and tired of the BS, if nothing else they are so far removed from the Drug seeking behaviour that they should be in a much better place to "just say no".

    In any event, incarcerating people for Drug crimes is obscene.
    there are three strike convicts in prison FOR LIFE over weed!
    How the F is that right?
    we do some stupidass stuff.
    A lot of sense here, especially the last paragraph. It is an obscene and insane national disgrace that our prisons are full of people busted with pot.

    There may be some debating to do to reach an acceptable definition of what is a "recreational" drug. Fwiw, here are my two cents.

    I would absolutely decriminalize marijuana and cannabis; I would probably allow cocaine under certain conditions, as well as the modern stuff that kids drop nowadays- XTC, MDMA - though I confess that I know next to nothing about these modern pills. I would have no objection to lab produced, quality LSD being available under certain conditions. However, I would absolutely draw the line at Heroin or Meth.

    I have smoked cannabis products for well over 40 years now, and not surprisingly I've come into contact with various parts and levels of the drug culture underground. From everything I've seen and heard, I consider H and Meth to be nasty, insidious, horribly addictive drugs. I also know that there are a lot of weak people out there who would be addicted pretty quickly with easy access.

    I also can't see any sensible reason why specific, specialized, prescription medicines should ever be available over the counter. Many people are probably not capable of self-medication, and should only take medicine as prescribed.

    The main attraction for the state, one that will become increasingly attractive as both local and national government desperately seek new sources of revenue, is that marijuana legalization and taxation would bring in billions - ever yeary - guaranteed!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    I dont see how that changes with those drugs being legal or illegal. There are plenty of users who don't resort to crimes. And if we spent less on law enforcement and more on treatment there would be less people who go that far.
    I completely agree with spending more on treatment, and IMO that should be the avenue for simple possession as opposed to incarceration...

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