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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Bargnani is our best post defender in 1 on 1 situtations in ISO plays only. Thats it. That Does not make him our "best post defnder" by any means. He is a terrible team defender and defensive rebounder.

    Everybody gets beat off the perimeter every now and then. But at least they put in an effort to try and help out anyway they can on defence as opposed to just standing there watching the play like Bargs.

    Injuries are a part of the game and Houston is not a terrible team, Neither is Dallas. We lost to both of those teams with Bargnani and won against them without him...
    This team lost to Houston/Dallas with Lowry & won without him. What's your point?.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    here's an interesting question. if you had a way of knowing, in advance, that Bargnani would shoot 5 for 14 in the game that night, would you still want him out there?

    the answer is astonishingly simple and that's the problem. if he's not really good at the one thing he does he's almost guaranteed to have a negative impact on the game, compared to a replacement level player.
    If he's part of an offensive plan that hinges on him spreading the floor, sure, he remains a threat even if he's not shooting well. He's a known shooter. Somehow you guys don't seem to be able to wrap your heads around that simple, basic strategy.

    We get that Bargs isn't working out, everybody gets that, and everybody has gotten that for years. That still doesn't mean that the strategy is flawed and when you have a player who can play like that you have an advantage.

    We've found out that the advantages and disadvantages don't balance out any more and another floor alignment is working better, so it's time to move on.

    But there is nothing at all wrong with the strategy.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    here's an interesting question. if you had a way of knowing, in advance, that Bargnani would shoot 5 for 14 in the game that night, would you still want him out there?

    the answer is astonishingly simple and that's the problem. if he's not really good at the one thing he does he's almost guaranteed to have a negative impact on the game, compared to a replacement level player.
    Understand that Bargnani has at times been overplayed to a detriment but unlike you I don't think spacing is a myth.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    This team lost to Houston/Dallas with Lowry & won without him. What's your point?.
    Your only defence is trying to pin this on Lowry, I rest my case.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Understand that Bargnani has at times been overplayed to a detriment but unlike you I don't think spacing is a myth.
    Spacing is basic basketball.

  6. #51
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    the going rate for players that space the floor is quite literally the veteran's minimum. The point is that Bargnani is supposed to be MORE than just that when he's on the court cuz others can do exactly that and do it better.
    Last edited by gwrighter; 12-30-2012 at 11:15 PM.
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  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    This team lost to Houston/Dallas with Lowry & won without him. What's your point?.
    Was Bargnani playing in those games we lost?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Your only defence is trying to pin this on Lowry, I rest my case.
    Seriously?

    Your case was the team lost to those teams with Bargnani & won without him.

    I simply pointed out the same fact with Lowry.

    It proves nothing.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmath View Post
    Was Bargnani playing in those games we lost?
    Yes, so was Lowry, what does that prove?.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    If he's part of an offensive plan that hinges on him spreading the floor, sure, he remains a threat even if he's not shooting well. He's a known shooter. Somehow you guys don't seem to be able to wrap your heads around that simple, basic strategy.

    We get that Bargs isn't working out, everybody gets that, and everybody has gotten that for years. That still doesn't mean that the strategy is flawed and when you have a player who can play like that you have an advantage.

    We've found out that the advantages and disadvantages don't balance out any more and another floor alignment is working better, so it's time to move on.

    But there is nothing at all wrong with the strategy.
    congratulations on having every opinion possible all in this one post. i think you got them all!
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 12-30-2012 at 11:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink View Post
    Spacing is basic basketball.
    sure it is. but playing a guy for 30 minutes a game (purely for spacing) who hurts you in every other facet of the game is plain stupid.

    if you want a guy that can hit open 3's and isn't good enough for the NBA in most other areas the D-League is literally full of them.
    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 12-30-2012 at 11:22 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    Bargnani is our best post defender in 1 on 1 situtations in ISO plays only. Thats it. That Does not make him our "best post defnder" by any means. He is a terrible team defender and defensive rebounder.
    More lies...

    He's our best overall defender out of him, Amir, Jonas, and Ed according to synergy. That's a fact. He gives up the fewest points per possession, with him being by far our number 1 ISO AND Post-Up defender (by a fair margin too). So yea that does make him our "best post defender", sorry to burst your bubble.

    Everybody gets beat off the perimeter every now and then. But at least they put in an effort to try and help out anyway they can on defence as opposed to just standing there watching the play like Bargs.
    So now you're rationalizing that poor perimeter D is ok? So when Calderon gets blown by or gets routinely killed off the PnR (like he did in the NO game) it's fine because he "looks" like he's giving an effort? That's a bunch of bull, the poor perimeter D is just as detrimental to the team as poor help D.

    Injuries are a part of the game and Houston is not a terrible team, Neither is Dallas. We lost to both of those teams with Bargnani and won against them without him...
    Not that simplistic...

    Alan Anderson vs Houston in win: 24 pts
    SF's vs Houston in loss: 0 pts
    But you're right it's simply Bargnani that's the problem

    And Bargs put up 29/9/3 with the best +/- on the team in the loss vs Dallas... let's blame him for the loss! That's logical.
    Last edited by North Yorker; 12-30-2012 at 11:22 PM.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Seriously?

    Your case was the team lost to those teams with Bargnani & won without him.

    I simply pointed out the same fact with Lowry.

    It proves nothing.
    My case is that Bargnani has been a detriment to this team and that what he does on the court offensively is negated by what he gives up on the defensive end. Lowry has been our best offensive and defensive player this season...
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  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post
    the going rate for players that space the floor is quite literally the veteran's minimum. The point is that Bargnani is supposed to be MORE than just that when he's on the court cuz others can do exactly that and do it better.
    this, exactly this.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  15. #60
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    Stats aside...

    This team is better off without Bargnani.

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