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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    Yeah, I think what really messed him up was him getting the call in 2010 and putting him in the pen.

    He should've been starting in the minors every year until he was ready.

    I still think he and Familia could potentially be two good pitchers to come out of the pen for us if they can find their control.


    Yeah, they've essentially thrown Meija onto the bonfire@ 20, because they would not even sign a reliever or two.

    At least the Mets actually have talented pitchers now, whether they amount to a hill of beans is another thing. If you have little control you will not last long in the BP.

  2. #17
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    I think a package with Mejia and/or Familia could net the Mets a solid player to help now and in the future. I wouldn't be upset at all to see one of them go.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdg515 View Post
    Of course they all won't make it...injuries, lack of development, trades, etc. always occur...my point is that it's nice to have a lot of arms to choose from...you figure we have four of them established and if half of the other eight make it that's 8 pitchers as a core of the staff within the next two or three years. In the '80s we had Gooden, Aguilera, McDowell, Myers and Sisk make it while West joined Aguilera and Tapani and Whitehurst in the Viola trade, Schiraldi was used to get Ojeda, Allen and Ownbey got us Keith, Darling was acquired with [I]Terrell[/I] for Mazzilli [and Terrelll swapped in a steal for HoJo], we stole El Sid for a backup infielder and Cone for Ed Hearn, Youmans was supposed to be a star but was in the Carter trade, and a bunch of other kid pitchers never made it. But having all of those talented young arms is the right place to start building a winner. These 10 homegrown pitchers plus four acquisitions helped make us champions....look back in a few years to see how the current 12 turn out.
    Koosman for Orosco!

    Quote Originally Posted by SJ5382 View Post
    As we are already relying on a very young Matt Harvey and two pitchers coming off major injuries (Santana and Gee), I think it would be smart to sign a veteran. Marcaum is underrated, I consider him a solid #3 starter when healthy...meaning he is probably way out of our price range. Chris Young seems more likely...
    Yep.
    John Maeda@johnmaeda

    Knowing the overall *shape* of an idea, argument, situation requires as many facts, models, opinions as you can take/make to see a whole.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdg515 View Post
    Of course they all won't make it...injuries, lack of development, trades, etc. always occur...my point is that it's nice to have a lot of arms to choose from...you figure we have four of them established and if half of the other eight make it that's 8 pitchers as a core of the staff within the next two or three years. In the '80s we had Gooden, Aguilera, McDowell, Myers and Sisk make it while West joined Aguilera and Tapani and Whitehurst in the Viola trade, Schiraldi was used to get Ojeda, Allen and Ownbey got us Keith, Darling was acquired with [I]Terrell[/I] for Mazzilli [and Terrelll swapped in a steal for HoJo], we stole El Sid for a backup infielder and Cone for Ed Hearn, Youmans was supposed to be a star but was in the Carter trade, and a bunch of other kid pitchers never made it. But having all of those talented young arms is the right place to start building a winner. These 10 homegrown pitchers plus four acquisitions helped make us champions....look back in a few years to see how the current 12 turn out.
    Schiraldi helped the Mets in '86 in more ways than just being the player to come over in the Ojeda trade. The Hernandez, Carter and Piazza trades get all the attention but one of the most important trades in franchise history that gets forgotten is the one that sent Schiraldi to Boston for Ojeda. No Ojeda and we're looking at a 43 year drought in between championships.

  5. #20
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    I'll take CY back with Dickey gone TBH.

  6. #21
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    How much is he assumes to get? 2-3 million?

    I would do that. It's always good to have more pitching, especially veterans.

  7. #22
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    We are going to have to count on them.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SILVER SEAVER View Post
    Schiraldi helped the Mets in '86 in more ways than just being the player to come over in the Ojeda trade. The Hernandez, Carter and Piazza trades get all the attention but one of the most important trades in franchise history that gets forgotten is the one that sent Schiraldi to Boston for Ojeda. No Ojeda and we're looking at a 43 year drought in between championships.
    Schiraldi also blew a lead in the world series so he helped us again...btw koosman for orosco was made in 1979 so I didn't count it. The sad part is how little we got when we traded or let go of darling fernandez ojeda viola and cone in the years that followed....jeff kent is all I can think of and we gave him away for garbage...its not just how you build a team but how you dismantle it that determines how long the rebuilding takes.
    Bob
    Met fan since 1969

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdg515 View Post
    Schiraldi also blew a lead in the world series so he helped us again...btw koosman for orosco was made in 1979 so I didn't count it. The sad part is how little we got when we traded or let go of darling fernandez ojeda viola and cone in the years that followed....jeff kent is all I can think of and we gave him away for garbage...its not just how you build a team but how you dismantle it that determines how long the rebuilding takes.
    We didn't get anything for Piazza.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  10. #25
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    At least we got Tim Burke from the Expos.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie6986 View Post
    For heaven's sake dun, and with all due respect as a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, how can you have fun watching and spending money on the 2013 team that may win perhaps 69-72 games?

    The essential formula for pitchers is that one of three minor league pitchers make it to the bigs. Reaching the majors does not ensure success either.

    Perhaps our BP will look like a young accomplished Braves/Nationals squad or then again, we may look like recent versions. I wonder where Blaine Boyer, D.J. Carrasco, Miguel Batista, Pat Misch, Ryoyo Igarashi, etc. are?

    Haven't you been through enough losing seasons since '62. You, I and a fortunate few on this forum have experienced '69 &'86. Plus, it's going on 27 years without a WS Championship and counting.

    I hope we're both healthy and alive when they win the next flag. Let's just hope it's not another 27 years or we might be in an uncompromising position of sorts. Watching the game in a coffin may not be the most comfortable place......
    Paulie, are you forgetting that the Official Borough Motto of Brooklyn was "Wait 'til next year"? Yes, the Dodger teams of my youth, from '47 to '57, were great teams, and fun to watch. But more often than not, in the final analysis, they resulted in heartbreak. They taught me that the game can still be a lot of fun, whether you win or lose. (Naturally, I'd much rather win.) Still, I'm an optimist. Last year we were in contention until the break. Maybe this year we can go deeper. But whatever we do, I'll enjoy it.

    I do have fun watching young players develop. Using your stat of 1 in 3 making it, and maybe a very few of them could become stars, I look at what we have down on the farm and I am very encouraged. Pitchers in waiting, like Wheeler, Syndergaard, Camarena, Tapia, Montero, DeGrom, Pill, Varrett, Fulmer, Mateo, Robles, Lara, Cessa, Ynoa, Matz, have star potential, even if only a few of them develop into major league starters. Isn't it going to be fun to watch their progress? And that's not even mentioning some of the stellar bull pen arms we have down there either.

    If Santana gets off to a strong start, if Francisco pitches decently out of the pen, I will eagerly await to see what Sandy does with them at the deadline. I'm hoping that he can pull off some trades that add one or two more elite prospects to the mix.

    I usually go to 4 or 5 games a season with my whole family, and we always have a great time. This year I am also planning to go to 4 or 5 ST games in March. Win or lose, I'm going to have me some fun.

    I'll raise my glass with you, in the hope that we are both healthy and alive when they win their next flag. I don't think we'll have to wait 27 years. Whenever it is, however, I'll be in heaven, figuratively, not literally, hopefully, when they do. I just hope I have an unobstructed view.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  12. #27
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    '47? Damn you are old lol

  13. #28
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    By age 21, Koufax, Ryan, Johnson, Gia gonzalez, McDowell, Guidry had terrible control. The sky is falling give up 21 yo pitchers because their control will never, ever improve.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    '47? Damn you are old lol
    I prefer to say I've experienced a great deal and am much the wiser for it. LMAO

    And BTW, the Koufax reference above is right on. He was exasperatingly wild at 21, which was the last year the Dodgers were in Brooklyn. If he had the benefit of minor league experience he might have straightened out earlier, but the rules required him to be thrown to the wolves upon signing his bonus deal.
    Last edited by dunbummin; 12-31-2012 at 12:15 AM.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  15. #30
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    To those pessimists out there here were the Mets top 20 prospects tens years ago today:

    1. Reyes
    Kazmir
    Heilman
    Wright

    Huber
    Peterson---used in PIT trade
    Strange
    Cerda
    Keppel
    Brazell
    Seibel
    Musser
    Phillips
    Griffiths
    Mattox
    Redman
    Duncan
    Bell---pretty good run a as a closer
    Pagan
    20. TWalker


    By my count 11 made it to the majors for more than a cup of coffee of which four became stars [Reyes, Wright, Kazmir, Bell], two others became regulars [Pagan, TWalker] and the others were platoon guys/fringe relievers. If our top 20 are the following I figure six or seven of the top 10 will make it as regulars, a few will become stars, and two or three of the second 10 will make it:

    1. Wheeler
    2. D'Arnaud
    3. Syndergaard
    4. Familia
    5. WFlores
    6. Nimmo
    7. Cecchini
    8. Puello
    9. Havens
    10. Fullmer
    11. Montero
    12. Tapia
    13. Lagares
    14. den Dekker
    15. Mazzoni
    16. Tovar
    17. Plawecki
    18. Mateo
    19. Urbina
    20. Vaughn

    to which I would add Edgin and Carson if they still qualify as rookies, and another ten with potential: Reynolds, ARodriguez, Gorski, Goeddel, AMorris, Leathersich, Muno...Matz, Lutz, Dotson have to stay healthy first.
    Bob
    Met fan since 1969

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