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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwrighter View Post

    I don't think Ross goes anywhere just yet.

    Edit: MGMt hasn't to my knowledge changed their stance on thinking that Terrence Ross and Demar Derozan work well together. They've shown some pretty good chemistry during this last 10 game stretch.
    I had my doubts but I like how Ross is maturing more than anything else on the court.
    “It’s about winning,” Stoudemire said. “You win, you’re going to get on national TV. Simple. In Phoenix, we won — Western Conference finals three, four years, playoffs every year. We won. If you don’t win, nobody really wants to see you.”

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by FriedTofuz View Post
    Granger > chandler
    Chandler+ Ross (each with 4 years of control)>>> Granger's 1 year of control. You dont even know how he will respond from his knee injury.

  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    why don't you try again then because i wasn't the only person who was confused by your comment and thought it seemed off.

    i stated that the players on the bench were vitally important and you replied with "Jason Terry and Manu Ginobili say hi". not hard to understand why that was confusing is it?
    I was agreeing with you. Gave two examples of players that are iconic 6th men.

    Moving on to the next thought: they are the same examples I've been giving since I started making threads about the importance of 6th men when I started posting here. Most people then, fewer now, thought starting was the only important thing.

    I'm not surprised that people don't appreciate the importance of a 6th man. I was just saying that two recent championship teams -- the Mavericks and the Spurs -- owe part of their success to the effective strategic use of a 6th man. It's an invaluable part of any successful team.
    Last edited by ink; 12-30-2012 at 04:29 PM.

  4. #109
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    http://www.sportsnet.ca/iphone/baske...k_to_be_moved/

    Kyle Lowry was also mentioned. Wow! If that is the case then this would be a major move then, I suspect a multi player trade.

    Lets say that this rumor does have legs then maybe a.....

    Bargs/Fields/Lowry

    For

    Millsap/Mo Williams/Marvin Williams

    is a possibility.

    Calderon may just have assured himself a MLE after this season if he wants to stay.

    I hope the rumor of Lowry going is not true but business is business so they say.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps Insider 12 View Post
    http://www.sportsnet.ca/iphone/baske...k_to_be_moved/

    Kyle Lowry was also mentioned. Wow! If that is the case then this would be a major move then, I suspect a multi player trade.

    Lets say that this rumor does have legs then maybe a.....

    Bargs/Fields/Lowry

    For

    Millsap/Mo Williams/Marvin Williams

    is a possibility.

    Calderon may just have assured himself a MLE after this season if he wants to stay.

    I hope the rumor of Lowry going is not true but business is business so they say.
    Why would the Raptors do this, other than using Lowry to dump 2 contracts.

    Raptors could easily let Jose expire, amnesty Bargnani & make an offer to Millsap, if he were a target, while retaining Lowry.

    With Millsap/Willaims set to expire, if Millsap were to walk, Raptors would be giving up Lowry for Marvin in order to dump salary, recently spent.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by B2B View Post
    Why would the Raptors do this, other than using Lowry to dump 2 contracts.

    Raptors could easily let Jose expire, amnesty Bargnani & make an offer to Millsap, if he were a target, while retaining Lowry.

    With Millsap/Willaims set to expire, if Millsap were to walk, Raptors would be giving up Lowry for Marvin in order to dump salary, recently spent.
    I was just trying to point out possibilities based on the rumor that was out there.

    It would be too stressful to micro-analyze such stuff.

  7. #112
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    I would offer Bargs to Bobcats for their pick. I know a lot of people here would say it's not fair value, but take into account that Jordan has made some ******** trades in the past. I wouldn't put it past him to make a trade like this. We can get them to add Diop to match up the value, or maybe we could even ask for a protected pick (ex: 1-3 this year, 1-2 next year) Kind of what we did when we traded for Lowry.

  8. #113
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    Buddy think about it from Bobcats perspective. They already have a stretch big in Mullens, why would they want a redundant player in Bargnani.

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by aman_13 View Post
    I had my doubts but I like how Ross is maturing more than anything else on the court.
    He's been letting the game come to him, not forcing his offense as much as he did early on in the season. Couple that with the apparent trend of him pulling off a highight reel dunk every game helps his case and confidence.
    Raptors Franchise Checklist:
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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Yorker View Post
    You are clearly de-valuing the 6th man role, as other posters have pointed out. Not sure why you continue to deny it. You said the only way to raise Bargs trade value is to start him. I disagree. Congrats on completely missing the point about Manu and Harden too. I wasnt comparing Bargs to them, I was saying that their value isnt diminished by coming off the bench. Do you think Pietrus is better than AA because AA comes off the bench? Of course not, and Pietrus's value isnt increased because he's starting either. That's the part of your post that didnt make any sense to me.

    And what question did I dodge? You're the one acting as your opinion is fact and rationalizing everything. Like there is "no way" that we can win by giving Bargs ~20mpg. You know how ridiculous that sounds. We arent going anywhere this year anyways, with no draft pick and no cap space this summer. The package we get back for Bargs IS IMPORTANT for the future of this franchise, whether you'd like to believe it or not.

    Every team knows what he's capable and incapable of. The problem is that his so called "strengths" arent as impressive as they used to be (3P% regressing,etc). You put him in the right compliment of players and the proper role and he can be a fantastic player to have on the team. THAT is what we should be trying to showcase, because the better package we get for him, the better the team will be long term. It's not a hard concept to understand.

    This is a "what have you done for me lately" type of business. Hell Jeremy Lin had what, 10-15 great games last season?? He gets handed $25M. If Bargs can put together a stretch of games where he plays to his abilities, teams WILL be more interested. The guy was probably our best player last year, you should be more concerned on getting a semi-decent return for him rather than him sabotaging our quest to win 35 games.
    I don't want to give Bargs anything except for an opportunity, albeit a small one, to prove he can help us win. Forget about worrying about his value to us as a trade asset.

    If we are dumping Bargs for nothing because we are winning without him, fine by me. Why? Because we are WINNING! That is the whole point isn't it? The point isn't to maximize value with assets you have decided you don't want on your team.

    Don't get me wrong you obviously bring him off the bench. 6th man role? If he earns it. But at this point I want to keep winning and you don't mess with the rotations when that is happening to accomodate a player who has no future with this team.

    As for what we get back for him. I like the Chandler option. Probably also our best bet here. Going after another player who for whatever reason isn't getting minutes. We all wanted to go after Chandler last season.

    I like a wing rotation of Derozan/Ross/Anderson/Chandler. If we could also land Mozgov that would be awesome. He isn't great but he is another C allowing Amir to play the 4 more often.

    Val/Mozgov/Gray
    Davis/Amir
    Chandler/Anderson/Pietrus/Kleiza
    Derozan/Ross/Fields
    Lowry/Calderon/Lucas

    Unloading Fields would be awesome as well mostly because of his salary. I also feel Kleiza becomes more valuable without Bargnani on the team. Simply because I feel like Kleiza actually does what Bargnani should do. Probably less effectively than what Bargs could achieve with effort.

    First and foremost though we need to realize that Bargs has virtually no value and I don't think he can change the general opinion with a good 15 game stretch. Someone is only going to acquire Bargs because they have a plan/place for him on their team. No one is building around this guy he is just an interesting shaped piece of the puzzle.

    Lin is not a valid comparison because his 15 game stretch of brilliance. A level of brilliance I would argue Bargnani has never demonstrated in all his time in the NBA. With his underwhelming history working against him I think the only way he increases his value is by helping us make the playoffs. Unfortunately I don't see him doing that in any sort of spectacular fashion.

    I honestly believe he will be amnestied in the off season and I am fine with that if we continue to compete as we have all season.

  11. #116
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    Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun
    @OnceUponATwime Not true that AB's a "lock" to be traded. Won't be given away. Lock team wants to deal him, but needs a return

    Ryan Wolstat ‏@WolstatSun
    @OnceUponATwime Can't see Lowry being traded, though some in organization wouldn't be opposed to it
    https://twitter.com/WolstatSun

  12. #117
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    TO TOR:
    Al Jefferson
    Paul Millsap

    To UTA:
    Jose Caledron
    Andrea Bargnani
    2nd round pick

  13. #118
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    ^
    TO TOR:
    Paul Millsap
    future protected 1st

    TO UTAH:
    Jose Calderon
    Andrea Bargnani
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Yorker View Post
    hmmmm...
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  15. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    ^
    TO TOR:
    Paul Millsap
    future protected 1st

    TO UTAH:
    Jose Calderon
    Andrea Bargnani
    Is Utah really far under the cap or have some sort of trade exception?

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