Best leagues in Europe discussion

[NYKalltheway]

Great atmosphere in the Serie A?

Like in that game were only 1 away fan showed up? I lol'ed.

do you even know why that happened?

[O_T-1]

My favorite league is the premier league.

I love the intensity of the games!


About my country, Portugal, We we had the financial capacity we would become one of the best leagues in the world.
Why?

- We are crazy about soccer. Every kid in school wants to be a soccer player
- We have new and good stadiums
- We are, geograycaly speaking, the best european door for south american players
- We have the best scouts in the world (you can debate that but its my opinion)


We just miss the money to keep our best players!

We also have an not normall capacity to rebuilt our teams. Look at Porto... each year they sell their best players and they still have a strong team!

In facto this year they will win the champions league

[homie564]

My favorite league is the premier league.

I love the intensity of the games!


About my country, Portugal, We we had the financial capacity we would become one of the best leagues in the world.
Why?

- We are crazy about soccer. Every kid in school wants to be a soccer player
- We have new and good stadiums
- We are, geograycaly speaking, the best european door for south american players
- We have the best scouts in the world (you can debate that but its my opinion)


We just miss the money to keep our best players!

We also have an not normall capacity to rebuilt our teams. Look at Porto... each year they sell their best players and they still have a strong team!

In facto this year they will win the champions league

not sure that's really debateable lol. Sporting has the best schools in the world without a doubt (Ronaldo, Nani, Figo, Simao, Moutinho, etc. etc.) Benfica produced world class talents (Gomes, Rui Costa, etc. etc.) Porto (Deco, Pepe, etc. etc). Not to mention teams like Benfica and Porto continuously sell their best players like you said and are ALWAYS competitive. Portugal needs to open their doors to private ownership. It would create another world of competition coming through a league with great historical players to allow to keep their best talents and open up some interesting european play.

[NYKalltheway]

Porto didn't produce Deco and Pepe.

[homie564]

Porto didn't produce Deco and Pepe.

no but they made them what they are... Porto has the weakest school out of the 3 by far, but they have a great eye for south american talent just like Benfica.

[NYKalltheway]

I think Porto overpays for their "scouted" talents. Good for them that they can fund them, but it's not rocket science to sign Falcao, Deco, Derlei, James Rodriguez, Otamendi etc. Their risky transfers are mostly flops but people will always talk about their future stars. Surely, they have the quantity to show but percentage wise their "scouted" talent is not really impressive. And I don't count Pepe, Deco or Derlei as a transfer success, he came from within the league. Nor Falcao who was already better than Higuain at the time of the latter's transfer to Real Madrid.


Basically a very overrated scouting system. I'd take Udinese's scouting over theirs. They do give a lot of chances to players that have performed very well in the Americas and it sometimes pays them back x10, which is why they can keep doing it. Kudos for Hulk btw... Japanese 2nd division but still overpaid.

[O_T-1]

Porto didn't produce Deco and Pepe.

I´m shocked!

A) Deco when arrived to Porto was undisciplinated player... didnt know tactics at all. He had bad habits (late nights drinking with friends...). He learned defensive play, high pressure, composture, etc etc. When he arrived to Porto he was simply an dribler.

B ) Pepe was a fast player when he arrived to porto, but nothing else. He had no positioning what so ever. The offside line to him didnt exist! He learned all that in Porto.

no but they made them what they are... Porto has the weakest school out of the 3 by far, but they have a great eye for south american talent just like Benfica.

Agreed... if you think about the U19, U17, U15 ... Benfica and Sporting produce better.

I think Porto overpays for their "scouted" talents. Good for them that they can fund them, but it's not rocket science to sign Falcao, Deco, Derlei, James Rodriguez, Otamendi etc. Their risky transfers are mostly flops but people will always talk about their future stars. Surely, they have the quantity to show but percentage wise their "scouted" talent is not really impressive. And I don't count Pepe, Deco or Derlei as a transfer success, he came from within the league. Nor Falcao who was already better than Higuain at the time of the latter's transfer to Real Madrid.


Basically a very overrated scouting system. I'd take Udinese's scouting over theirs. They do give a lot of chances to players that have performed very well in the Americas and it sometimes pays them back x10, which is why they can keep doing it. Kudos for Hulk btw... Japanese 2nd division but still overpaid.

Again Shocked!

Flops? Well start naming them! I can help you with one: ITURBE.
Do you know why he is having trouble setling in Porto? Atittude, Professionalism, Dedication, Lack of humility. In Porto you have to work work work... they dont admit lack of effort. Homie is a Benfica Fan and he can prove me right!

Another thing... scouting doesnt involve just finding players. Its about negotiating better than others... offering a better career expectation. Players everyone can find them... getting them on board is another thing.

Now Falcão, he gave an interview saying that he learned off ball movement in Porto. He wasnt the player he is today when he arrived to Porto.

About Pepe, Deco and Derlei.... wel we spent a total of 3M€ and sold them for 60M€! How is not a sucessefull transfer?


Finally... many clubs and persons like Sir Alex Ferguson to name one, had said that Porto players are expensive but very good in all expects.


Sorry my greek friend but has you can see i tottaly disagree with you... but i stlll like you

[homie564]

I think Porto overpays for their "scouted" talents. Good for them that they can fund them, but it's not rocket science to sign Falcao, Deco, Derlei, James Rodriguez, Otamendi etc. Their risky transfers are mostly flops but people will always talk about their future stars. Surely, they have the quantity to show but percentage wise their "scouted" talent is not really impressive. And I don't count Pepe, Deco or Derlei as a transfer success, he came from within the league. Nor Falcao who was already better than Higuain at the time of the latter's transfer to Real Madrid.


Basically a very overrated scouting system. I'd take Udinese's scouting over theirs. They do give a lot of chances to players that have performed very well in the Americas and it sometimes pays them back x10, which is why they can keep doing it. Kudos for Hulk btw... Japanese 2nd division but still overpaid.

except for the fact that Zenit fans are all disappointed with Hulk

but regardless. I'd consider guys like Atsu, James, Falcao, etc to all be good scouts. Although, Falcao was basically stolen from Benfica, who all but had a transfer for him completed, and then Porto swooped in last minute. Similar to the Danillo and Alex Sandro transfer aswell. Porto has a good scouting department. A lot of the players that flop are mostly due to a tough system rather than lack of talent.

[O_T-1]

except for the fact that Zenit fans are all disappointed with Hulk

but regardless. I'd consider guys like Atsu, James, Falcao, etc to all be good scouts. Although, Falcao was basically stolen from Benfica, who all but had a transfer for him completed, and then Porto swooped in last minute. Similar to the Danillo and Alex Sandro transfer aswell. Porto has a good scouting department. A lot of the players that flop are mostly due to a tough system rather than lack of talent.

Exactly.

[NYKalltheway]

Well I consider:Scouting = Finding a relatively unknown player and realizing his potential

Negotiating is not really a part of a scouting assignment. Talking up a team is though. Negotiating is handled by the directors or managers of a team. In almost every case, sometimes with the presence of the scout since he might have interacted with the player. But I wouldn't give credit to a scout for signing a player .

Never questioned the talent that Porto can spot. But Porto has made expensive transfers (and of course has sold them at a much higher price) with players everyone and their grandma knew that they had huge chances of success. Falcao certainly improved at Porto, but he was the best striker in the Americas for like 3 years before moving there. Sure, he was used mostly as a "body" to give freedom to Higuain at first but everyone saw potential.

homie, all Benfica had to do was pay 1m more to Falcao and he'd be yours. I remember Panathinaikos swooping in but Djibril Cisse had already signed and they wanted to spend the money on the midfield and defense. If we had both it'd be one of Europe's best offenses!!!

Never questioned Porto's selling abilities. Amazing profit margins to be honest.

But I mean Anderson for 7m euros is not a cheap transfer. Falcao for 5m is not a cheap transfer. Lucho Gonzalez for 6m is not a cheap transfer. Hulk for 20m is definitely not a cheap transfer. 7m for James Rodriguez is not a cheap transfer. Jackson Martinez for 8m euros is not a cheap transfer. Otamendi for 8m euros is not a cheap transfer. Defour for 6m euros is not a cheap transfer. 7m for Mangala is not a cheap transfer. Danilo for 13m.

Sure they are good investments, but I associate great scouting with cheap transfers that overperform. Porto's cheap transfers are domestic. I mean 200k for Deco is money that not many teams could afford back in the late 90s in Portugal.
Falcao and Lucho came while being River's best players at that time, one of the most popular teams in the world.


Now as for Udinese who I rate the highest in terms of scouting:
Emmanuel Badu 500k
Mehdi Benatia 0 (from French 2nd division)
Luis Muriel 1.5m
Pablo Armero 1.4m
Kwadwo Asamoah 1.5m
Mauricio Isla 700k
David Pizzaro 400k (1999)
Alexis Sanchez 3m
Cristian Zapata 500k
Asamoah Gyan 250k
Gokhan Inler 1.4m
Samir Handanovic 0 (from Slovenian 1st division)

[O_T-1]

Well I consider:Scouting = Finding a relatively unknown player and realizing his potential

Negotiating is not really a part of a scouting assignment. Talking up a team is though. Negotiating is handled by the directors or managers of a team. In almost every case, sometimes with the presence of the scout since he might have interacted with the player. But I wouldn't give credit to a scout for signing a player .

Never questioned the talent that Porto can spot. But Porto has made expensive transfers (and of course has sold them at a much higher price) with players everyone and their grandma knew that they had huge chances of success. Falcao certainly improved at Porto, but he was the best striker in the Americas for like 3 years before moving there. Sure, he was used mostly as a "body" to give freedom to Higuain at first but everyone saw potential.

homie, all Benfica had to do was pay 1m more to Falcao and he'd be yours. I remember Panathinaikos swooping in but Djibril Cisse had already signed and they wanted to spend the money on the midfield and defense. If we had both it'd be one of Europe's best offenses!!!

Never questioned Porto's selling abilities. Amazing profit margins to be honest.

But I mean Anderson for 7m euros is not a cheap transfer. Falcao for 5m is not a cheap transfer. Lucho Gonzalez for 6m is not a cheap transfer. Hulk for 20m is definitely not a cheap transfer. 7m for James Rodriguez is not a cheap transfer. Jackson Martinez for 8m euros is not a cheap transfer. Otamendi for 8m euros is not a cheap transfer. Defour for 6m euros is not a cheap transfer. 7m for Mangala is not a cheap transfer. Danilo for 13m.

Sure they are good investments, but I associate great scouting with cheap transfers that overperform. Porto's cheap transfers are domestic. I mean 200k for Deco is money that not many teams could afford back in the late 90s in Portugal.
Falcao and Lucho came while being River's best players at that time, one of the most popular teams in the world.


Now as for Udinese who I rate the highest in terms of scouting:
Emmanuel Badu 500k
Mehdi Benatia 0 (from French 2nd division)
Luis Muriel 1.5m
Pablo Armero 1.4m
Kwadwo Asamoah 1.5m
Mauricio Isla 700k
David Pizzaro 400k (1999)
Alexis Sanchez 3m
Cristian Zapata 500k
Asamoah Gyan 250k
Gokhan Inler 1.4m
Samir Handanovic 0 (from Slovenian 1st division)

What we have is a different view of what scouting is.
Porto Scouting negotiates and even makes reports on their own players.

But even in your point of view of scouting, Porto has the following youngsters in their B and A team with lots of potencial:
- Kelvin
- Caballero
- Sebá
- Dellatorre
- Abdoulaye
- Kadu
- Atsu
- Vion

- - -Mangala, Danilo, Alex Sandro, Iturbe i will consider them has "already known players when we got them"


But we have more examples of your type of scounting (less known players or cheap ones) in the past:
- Fucile
- Fernando
- Hulk (expensive but was completely forgotten is Japan)
- CIssokho
- Bruno Alves
- Sergio Conçeição


Finnally, NYGreekfan (like i call you in the bulls forum, lol) the results speak for us! With lower budget compared to most european teams we have won 2 Uefa cups, 1 Champion League and 1 International Supercup in 10 years! How many teams can match that?

[NYKalltheway]

never said Porto's system is a failed one just said that it's a tad overpriced and gets too much hype while Porto spends as much as most teams really, they just manage to sell really high as well which other teams can't.

Point is, EPL is crap

[O_T-1]

never said Porto's system is a failed one just said that it's a tad overpriced and gets too much hype while Porto spends as much as most teams really, they just manage to sell really high as well which other teams can't.

Point is, EPL is crap

Its alright man... love you!

PS: Whats EPL?

[NYKalltheway]

Its alright man... love you!

PS: Whats EPL?

English Premier Lameleague

[O_T-1]

English Premier Lameleague

Lol ... i love premier league.
Its not the best skilled soccer but no doubt they are the most exciting to whatch