Knicks Defensive Woes

[29$JerZ]

Tuesday's 105-100 loss to the visiting Portland Trail Blazers sparked a waive of panic throughout the Knicks media, most of who have their finger pointed directly at the team's lackluster defense.

A season ago the Knicks ranked fifth in the NBA in defensive efficiency (points allowed per 100 possessions) with an impressive mark of 98.4. That figure has ballooned to 103.1 this season (18th in the league) and there's any number of culprits: Poor effort, injuries, age, etc.

As I pointed out yesterday, opposing point guards have done a lot of the damage, averaging 20.5 ppg (22nd in the league). Coach Mike Woodson has recently begun using swingman Ronnie Brewer to defend the position, but that didn't work too well against Blazers rookie Damian Lillard on Tuesday (he finished with 21 points).

The truth is, with point guard Raymond Felton sidelined by a fractured pinky, the Knicks don't have anyone that's quick enough to keep up with the faster guards in the league.

Of course, opposing point guards are just one of the defensive issues for the Knicks. Here are some diagnoses from around the internet:

• NJ.com's Tony Williams picked up on a particularly interesting quote from Knicks forward Amar'e Stoudemire, who had an up-and-down return from a left knee debridement on Tuesday: "Following a defensive-oriented practice where head coach Mike Woodson spent a vast majority teaching Stoudemire the nuances of angles and body positioning on defense, Stoudemire lauded his coach for showing him the way... 'Just having a defensive coach for the first time in my career is going to help,' Stoudemire said. "'I've never been taught defense my whole career. To now have a coach who actually teaches defense and strategies, and knows positioning and posture, and how to guard different plays, is going to be helpful and I'm taking it as a challenge and try to improve as a player.'"

• As the New York Post's Kevin Kernan wrote, it appears Stoudemire is finally accepting he never played good defense: "Like everything in Woodson's world, winning starts with defense. Stoudemire vowed to change the way he does business. Stoudemire worked hard in practice to get into the proper defensive positioning, intently following Woodson's instructions while making more than his share of mistakes."

• Stoudemire spent plenty of time working on defense Wednesday, wrote Jared Zwerling of ESPNNewYork.com. "During practice, Woodson went over a lot of half-court defense. While he explained rotations, he stressed effort and communication -- two factors that many Knicks have pointed to during their recent slide. Afterward, Stoudemire worked with assistants Herb Williams and LaSalle Thompson on defensive positioning while guarding pick-and-rolls. Both of them were showing STAT how to maintain a strong defensive stance, and to keep his hands high and active."

• As Nate Taylor of The New York Times explained, things have gotten worse of late: "The Knicks rank a modest 15th in the league in points per game allowed, after starting the season right at the top. More troubling, over those last 10 games, they have allowed an average of 101.3 points per game, which ranks a dismal 25th for that span. In five of those games — against the Portland Trail Blazers, the Sacramento Kings, the Minnesota Timberwolves, the Chicago Bulls and the Houston Rockets — the Knicks also found themselves trailing by 10 or more points at least once. Only against the Timberwolves, who were playing without their best player, Kevin Love, did the Knicks rally to win."

• Jason Kidd might have to defend Tony Parker on Thursday night and that could spell trouble for the Knicks, wrote Mitch Lawrence of the New York Daily News: "Here's what else Knick fans have to be talking about now: Woodson is down to Kidd and Pablo Prigioni to defend playmakers... Paging Iman Shumpert . . . Iman Shumpert ... please report to the Garden. This is where the Knicks miss his voracious on-the-ball skills, but he and his knee have not even been cleared to do contact scrimmaging. So the point is the Knicks' most vulnerable spot, with a date with Rajon Rondo looming in just another four days."

• Zwerling wrote that Shumpert's return might not be imminent: "On Wednesday, Iman Shumpert went through some individual contact and he was the point guard in non-contact, five-on-five drills focusing on pick-and-rolls. Woodson said he wasn't sure when Shump could take 5-on-5 contact... Afterward, Shumpert worked on his 3-pointers. Shooting coach Dave Hopla has wanted him to jump less to improve the timing of his release. In addition, Hopla has appeared to be schoolingPablo Prigioni on speeding up his 3-point release. Previously, Prigioni looked to shoot almost too patiently and methodically. Now, he seems to have more of a quicker, fluid launch."

• As Newsday's Al Iannazzone explained, a lot of the defense's issues has to do with the absence of Rasheed Wallace: "The Knicks have a need for Rasheed Wallace. But the veteran big man remains out with a foot injury. Wallace is expected to miss his tenth consecutive game Thursday night when the Knicks face San Antonio. It's no coincidence the Knicks have struggled defensively without Wallace. His presence and chatter on the defensive end were big reasons the Knicks were stout earlier in the season... They are 16-4 with Wallace in the lineup and allow 93.6 points per game. Without him, they're 5-6 and give up 103.9 points."

• New York Magazine's Will Leitch suggested that Woodson is a bit overrated as a defensive coach: "The problem has been the defense, supposedly Mike Woodson's calling card (though advanced metrics have long argued against Woodson's acumen), which has been particularly horrid at the beginning of games. The pick-and-roll defense has been gruesome to watch, and early on, the Knicks were simply handing the Blazers a free pass through the lane. The Knicks are still switching too much, but, mostly, their guards are just being beaten off the dribble, and Tyson Chandler is unable to guard everybody who drives the basket. The Knicks were outrebounded, outscored in the paint, and just generally outplayed all night."

http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2...ages_on_s.html

Imo its the result of Kidd having to play starter minutes and Shumpert simply being out 1/3rd of the season.
Thoughts?

[Max.This]

Its actually very simple. Quicker point guards penetrate easily due to kidd and pablo's lack of speed. The only reason we lost to Portland was in the beginning they were more focused on giving the ball to amare then to actually win the game. It was particularly painful to watch when amare, melo and j.r were all on the court. they each individually are isolation players. They had no idea what the hell to do. This is the problem when you have three star caliber players and none of which are point guards, theres just no balance. Raymond felton will be a huge key because of his ability to penetrate and dish, but thats not until 4 weeks. Iman Shumpert will be huge for us to run point considering he has been working on his shot. I'm a big fan of pablo but the dude can't shoot if his life depended on it. I swear if he came over when he was 30 it wouldve been a whole different ball game. For now, we have to keep playing smart D, while getting stat acclimated to the fast pace of an NBA game. The spurs will decimate us this game.

[LeGacy is Music]

I don't get anyone on this forum I feel like no one gets basketball or watches the Knicks. You say Amare is the reason we lost? listen I have said this again and again. Watch the Bulls and watch Mr. Noah protect the paint. We know Jason kidd is older and is going to get beat but guess who is supposed to protect the paint the biggs PF and Center especially the Center. Amare is learning how to play d we can't blame him, also he hasn't played since the playoffs its time to no longer play Brewer, and let James White and copeland get his minutes. When I play 2k13 he barely sees the floor because Shump is out but what needs to happen is Camby needs to play more and we need to bring Ewing in here to teach theses guys about protecting the paint as bigs.

[D-Leethal]

I see the intensity come in waves, we will play lockdown D for a few minutes here and there and than get lazy. Other than that, our schemes are way different. Last year we would switch everything on the pick and roll and we would funnel guys into Tyson, we would give up baseline and also funnel guys into the middle into him. This year were doing the complete opposite, we only switch 1s and 2s and instead of using Tyson to cut off penetration and hedge pick and rolls, Woody is putting the onus on the guards to get over every screen so we don't have to switch and to simply stop penetration with 1 on 1 defense instead of allowing it (and somewhat using it to your advantage with a basket protector like Tyson).

IMO, the blame has been on the guards. They are playing like they want Tyson to clean everything up and Tyson is playing like the guards are supposed to control penetration, not him.

[D-Leethal]

I will say I don't like the idea of putting all the onus on the guards to control penetration. Thats nearly impossible in this league with the handcheck rules, speedster guards on pretty much every single team, and the amount of screens that get set up top. How do you really contain penetration without a ton of help from the 2nd line of defense?

We need to use Tyson like Bulls use Noah and like Dallas used Tyson and like Boston used KG in '08. As a true defensive anchor, a roamer who is accountable for helping guard all 5 guys not just a guy who guards opposing bigs.

[LeGacy is Music]

I will say I don't like the idea of putting all the onus on the guards to control penetration. Thats nearly impossible in this league with the handcheck rules, speedster guards on pretty much every single team, and the amount of screens that get set up top. How do you really contain penetration without a ton of help from the 2nd line of defense?

We need to use Tyson like Bulls use Noah and like Dallas used Tyson and like Boston used KG in '08. As a true defensive anchor, a roamer who is accountable for helping guard all 5 guys not just a guy who guards opposing bigs.

THANK YOU!!!! I have been saying this for the longest. I hate how many times someone runs to the lane and chandler just looks at the opposing player with that stupid look like how did he get there.

[gate7 greek nyk]

I don't now what's worst..that our PG's can't defend,or that our PG's can't drive or shoot..?How many teams can you name me in the league with PG's like ours?

I was barking all summer that it's a terrible mistake not having more scorers in this team with Amare and Iman out..Untill Felton comes back we gonna suffer

[D-Leethal]

THANK YOU!!!! I have been saying this for the longest. I hate how many times someone runs to the lane and chandler just looks at the opposing player with that stupid look like how did he get there.

Its been happening way too much this season. I give Tyson the benefit of the doubt because I have seen what he can do defensively. Hes trying to stick to Woody's game plan but the guards haven't been getting it done. I liked our D much better last season when we had much worse defensive personnel because we had a gameplan that utilized the strengths of Tyson while minimizing the weaknesses of guys like Lin, Bibby, Fields, or whoever was guarding the perimeter. We pretty much let guys beat the first line of defense as long as we let them beat us in such a way that funneled them to the 7'1 beast at the bucket the way we wanted them to.

[KnickFanSince91]

THANK YOU!!!! I have been saying this for the longest. I hate how many times someone runs to the lane and chandler just looks at the opposing player with that stupid look like how did he get there.

Tyson has been looking like David Lee out there lately on defense. Dude doesn't challenge or change any shots this year and as a result, opposing teams are attacking the rim at will. Ty needs to protect that rim now that Camby and Amare are healthy enough to give us minutes if he gets into foul trouble.

[D-Leethal]

Tyson has been looking like David Lee out there lately on defense. Dude doesn't challenge or change any shots this year and as a result, opposing teams are attacking the rim at will. Ty needs to protect that rim now that Camby and Amare are healthy enough to give us minutes if he gets into foul trouble.

I understand his D looks worse but both he and Woody have both noted the change in gameplan this year defensively, and that they don't want Tyson to have to help on guards all day long leaving his man open for weakside dump off dunks. Right now the switch in gameplan hasn't worked, but its more than just Tyson playing worse than he did last year.

[KnickFanSince91]

I understand his D looks worse but both he and Woody have both noted the change in gameplan this year defensively, and that they don't want Tyson to have to help on guards all day long leaving his man open for weakside dump off dunks. Right now the switch in gameplan hasn't worked, but its more than just Tyson playing worse than he did last year.

The gameplan isn't working but I'm not even talking about rotating off his man...there have been plenty of times when opposing have challenged Ty 1-on-1 at the rim without much resistance. Last year he wasn't playing like that and it's really starting to bother me.

[PJAF]

http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2...ages_on_s.html

Imo its the result of Kidd having to play starter minutes and Shumpert simply being out 1/3rd of the season.
Thoughts?

Good stuff. I think everything said is right on. Not sure if there is an immediate solution. I would consider JR guarding the point and Kidd guarding the two guard.

[Becks2307]

Tyson has been looking like David Lee out there lately on defense. Dude doesn't challenge or change any shots this year and as a result, opposing teams are attacking the rim at will. Ty needs to protect that rim now that Camby and Amare are healthy enough to give us minutes if he gets into foul trouble.

Has anyone watched David Lee on D this season?...not that bad at all.

[KnickFanSince91]

Has anyone watched David Lee on D this season?...not that bad at all.

I honestly can't say that I have caught one Warriors game this year. I just remember what he was like before he left

[Becks2307]

I honestly can't say that I have caught one Warriors game this year. I just remember what he was like before he left

Like I stated in the other thread. He was a product of D'Antoni, plus he was asked to anchor the defense ala Chandler. He doenst miss rotations, rebounds and has good awareness.

I wish Amare would be as good as Lee on D to be honest. Amare lacks defensive common sense.