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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I meant at no point was Stockton better than Prime Zeke
    Here is what I'll give you.

    I'll freely admit that Thomas, when playing at his very best, was better than Stockton at his very best, but, Thomas is not capable of playing at his very best always, which Stockton was.

    In a seven game series, I would expect Thomas to have a better game than Stockton at least once, perhaps twice, but over the 7-game series, Stockton's numbers would certainly be better than Thomas's numbers.


    The thing with Stockton is that he was consistent. He always played at a high level, where as Thomas was very streakly, even within games. He could be cold all game, then go on a tear in the third or forth quarter, and in those instances, that level of play was as high as any level of play ever seen in teh NBA, but he couldn't keep that up. With Thomas, you always knew that he would give a 100%, like Stockton, but with THomas you never knew is that was gong to be 18 points on 6-19 shooting with 8 assists and 5 turnovers, or 31 points on 14-20 shooting with 9 assists and 2 turnovers. With Stockton, you always know what level of play you are going to get from him.

    And that said, I would take Stockton in his prime over Thomas in his prime any day of the week. Liek I said in an earlier post, the only thing Thomas did more of was socring, and that's because he shot so much more. Stockton got more career points with fewer FGA. I think that had Stockton been playing his prime in Detroit when Thomas was, Detroit would have won three in a row, and they wouldn't have been swept by the Bulls in 91.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Every year? Even though his team made 3 straight Finals and were dominant regular season teams?


    LOL he said alot more than that over the years, remember when he said it was better for black people to call women *****es? You really dont know what a scumbag/competitor Zeke was if you think thats all he said. And LOTS of people thought he was racist with that comment.

    Thats not true, I dont know of a single player that has the same home/away disparity.


    It's hard for me to call Zeke a racist I just think he didn't know that a person that had his status at the time couldn't just say whatever he wanted. Fist off the Bird comment was said by Rodman, Thomas was asked about it and he agreed AND it was true.

    The calling women B's thing was off the wall but he didn't say it's better for black people to say that he said he would take exception to a white guy calling a black woman a B. I understand why he said it in a racial and historical context, I wouldn't have said it but I get it.

    But it's well documented he was a jerk, as evidenced by walking off the court when MJ beat him before the game was over.



    Off topic I know........


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  3. #48
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    My list alltime

    Magic
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    LOL he said alot more than that over the years, remember when he said it was better for black people to call women *****es? You really dont know what a scumbag/competitor Zeke was if you think thats all he said. And LOTS of people thought he was racist with that comment. .
    WOW!!! I did not hear that one actually. You got to share more of this stuff with me. What else did he say?

    In Detroit he was seen as a hero... a real stand up guy. He did all kinds of public service announcements and such.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jU3gWshC3Y

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khWZ8fob3LQ
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  5. #50
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    Joe johnson , Amare Stoudemire and even Mike Dantoni cant thank this guy enough

  6. #51
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    Him winning a ring won't change my ranking on him, he won't be his teams 2nd best player even at this point. He is behind Magic, Stockton, Oscar, or Walt, and he would get lumped in with Payton, Zeke, and a couple others at those 5-8 spots.

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  7. #52
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    Stockton doesn't have two rings, but he played against undoubtedly the greatest player and team in the NBA in the Finals, twice! Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls(you already know that). I just wish MJ could have just let us have one ring...how many do you really need when you become the first ultra super star of basketball.

    I am so surprised that Utah didn't make it to the finals when Malone and Stockton had Mark Eaton, Thurl Baily, and Darrell Griffith. I mean that team sounds so much better than Hornacek, Harpring, Ostertag, and Russel.

    I know Stockton is and probably forever will be #1, especially in those stats! We need a new PG in Utah, who can retake us to our former glory and beyond.
    It sounds so stupid now, but when Dwill was around, I really thought he was the new era to continue on our Legacy, now we still don't have anyone, and with Mo out, its even more terrible!

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanStorm View Post
    Stockton doesn't have two rings, but he played against undoubtedly the greatest player and team in the NBA in the Finals, twice! Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls(you already know that). I just wish MJ could have just let us have one ring...how many do you really need when you become the first ultra super star of basketball.

    I am so surprised that Utah didn't make it to the finals when Malone and Stockton had Mark Eaton, Thurl Baily, and Darrell Griffith. I mean that team sounds so much better than Hornacek, Harpring, Ostertag, and Russel.

    I know Stockton is and probably forever will be #1, especially in those stats! We need a new PG in Utah, who can retake us to our former glory and beyond.
    It sounds so stupid now, but when Dwill was around, I really thought he was the new era to continue on our Legacy, now we still don't have anyone, and with Mo out, its even more terrible!

    Come on that was smack dab in the middle of Showtime. You know Magic had the 80's on lock!

    But I did think they had a legit shot against the Bulls both years. MJ was MJ but Rodman was huge in "containing" Malone. Prior to that he was playing like a man possessed!

    But hey Stockton doesn't have rings because of two of the top 5 players of all time, that's nothing to be ashamed about......


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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks:24895573
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Every year? Even though his team made 3 straight Finals and were dominant regular season teams?


    LOL he said alot more than that over the years, remember when he said it was better for black people to call women *****es? You really dont know what a scumbag/competitor Zeke was if you think thats all he said. And LOTS of people thought he was racist with that comment.

    Thats not true, I dont know of a single player that has the same home/away disparity.


    It's hard for me to call Zeke a racist I just think he didn't know that a person that had his status at the time couldn't just say whatever he wanted. Fist off the Bird comment was said by Rodman, Thomas was asked about it and he agreed AND it was true.

    The calling women B's thing was off the wall but he didn't say it's better for black people to say that he said he would take exception to a white guy calling a black woman a B. I understand why he said it in a racial and historical context, I wouldn't have said it but I get it.

    But it's well documented he was a jerk, as evidenced by walking off the court when MJ beat him before the game was over.



    Off topic I know........
    Ill look it up when I'm home but I'm pretty sure he clarified his statements and they came off even worse

  10. #55
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    Nash is a top five pg of all time. Probably the only player besides Stockton that you build a team around that isn't your first priority scorer.

    Magic
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  11. #56
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    Thomas did say that, but it was duirng his time witht he Knicks, so it wouldn't have impacted his getting voted on an All-NBA team in 1988.

    Here's an article on it:
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...ticle-1.245457

    I love how the article described two jurors "nodding off". lol


    I understand what Thomas is saying. There is a cultural meaning for the word "b!tch" in different cultures. Nikki Minaj for examples often refers to herself as a 'bad b!tch', and Kanye West has written a song about Kim called 'Perfect B!tch'. I think the term is highly offnsive and mysoginistic, but I can clearly see in hip-hop that the word, like the N-word, has a meaning outside of the one attritbuted to the more general English-speaking population. That said, it could be argued that Thomas is suggesting that Black men be held to a lower standard than white men, and that people should be accepting of mysoginist terms such as 'b!tch' when Black men say it, and there are all kinds of problematic implications with that.

    That said, there is an expectation in the work place that you should be treated with respect, and being referred to as 'b!tch', regardless of the colour of skin of the person using the word, is out of line.

    As for the LArry Bird comments, it was Rodman that initially made the comment and Thomas simply agreed. Here is an article about that:

    http://www.nytimes.com/1987/06/05/sp...s-on-bird.html

    Thomas does a much better job explaining himself afterward in this instance, and I think Thomas was right. If Bird was Black, he very likely may not have won 3-straight MVP awards. He won the voting each season by a landslide, especially the second and thrid award. Larry was deserving in each case, but as is the case every season, there were other players equally deserving. I understand Rodman's comments and Thomas's response and i would say as well that I agree with them. I'm not going to get into it, because I don't want to be seen as baiting (I once got a CP3 thread deleted for baiting when i asked if CP3 would have won last seasons MVP if he were white... I think he would have). I think voters for the MVP can sometimes unconsiously take race into consideration. I don't think there has ever been a player who won the MVP award who didn't deserve it, but that said every season there are also players who don't win who were equally deserving of the aaward. I understand what Rodman was saying and what Thomas was saying and I think they have a valid point, especially in the 80s.

    That said, I don't think what Thomas said impacted his All-NBA voting. I mean, Rodman is the one who said it, Thomas just agreed, and Rodman was still voted onto All-NBA teams and All-Defensive teams and won back-toback DPOY awards after he made these comments. Thomas was simply the bigger star at the time and so the media focused on him instead of Rodman who was only a rookie that year and was coming off the bench.
    Last edited by JasonJohnHorn; 12-30-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanStorm View Post
    Stockton doesn't have two rings, but he played against undoubtedly the greatest player and team in the NBA in the Finals, twice! Michael Jordan's Chicago Bulls(you already know that). I just wish MJ could have just let us have one ring...how many do you really need when you become the first ultra super star of basketball.

    I am so surprised that Utah didn't make it to the finals when Malone and Stockton had Mark Eaton, Thurl Baily, and Darrell Griffith. I mean that team sounds so much better than Hornacek, Harpring, Ostertag, and Russel.

    I know Stockton is and probably forever will be #1, especially in those stats! We need a new PG in Utah, who can retake us to our former glory and beyond.
    It sounds so stupid now, but when Dwill was around, I really thought he was the new era to continue on our Legacy, now we still don't have anyone, and with Mo out, its even more terrible!
    im think stockton > thomas but if there is ONE thing you cant argue in favour of stocketon over thomas is precisely the ring and jordan thing.
    Because thomas pistons BEAT THE CRAP out of Jordan bulls in their way to their two titles.

  13. #58
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    Nash is 5th

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Thats not true, I dont know of a single player that has the same home/away disparity.
    I looked up Stockton home/away dispairty. He apparently averaged 11.4 assists per game at home, and 10.6 on the road. A difference of 0.8, which I think is reasonable given that teams score less on the road than they do at home, so it would make sense that their PG would get fewer assists on the road.

    I can't find a site that have the splits though, send me a link to one if you don't mind, I'm curious to see what the differences are for other players.
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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTBaByyy View Post
    Johnson
    Stockton
    Kidd
    Thomas
    Nash
    Payton
    Ew Nash better than Payton? No way.

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