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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shlumpledink View Post
    I don't think basketball is a game that lets you base your opinion on stats. You don't have to be smart to recognize that stats and watching the games give you two different pictures. Sometimes they overlap, sometimes they don't.

    I realize a large percentage of the nation bases their view of players based on their stats. It's kind of a simplistic system that lets people get their views across, and share their takes with other people who don't watch their team's games. Defensive player of the year is picked based on simple counting stats. MVP is picked off of simple counting stats. It takes a lot of having to watch basketball out of the equation when you can just find the best team, then pick the player with the best stats.

    I don't mind the stats, I think they're interesting to look at. I don't like basing my opinions off of stats. People under/over achieve all the time, and matchups are a big part of the equation, as well as personnel and the system they play in both offensively and defensively. You lose a lot of individual games when you look at end of the season statistics.
    I'm a fan on the East Coast, not counting Celt games and playoffs, I'm lucky to see 15 games a year on the West Coast. I have a good idea of how Westbrook plays, maybe twice a year I'll check on him via stats compared to last year. Is it ideal? No. Does it work? Not bad. Looking at him w advanced stats is more sure than PPG and APG.

    Still, no matter how you slice it, the NBA on TV sucks. I've been a Coach and player for a long time I usually look at two or three things at once, very often off the ball. TV doesn't give me what I want in that regard nor do advanced stats.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    Who gains the most are obscure players. Who loses the most are a generation of fans that would've been basing their perception off stats instead of enjoying the game......
    I don't agree at all dude. If anything, I like the game even more since I started getting into advanced stats...

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    You actually watch the game though. You know as well as I that there a whole bunch of guys on here that just spout off stats without even watching games to either discredit a player they don't like or try to make their favorite player look better......
    I think you are reaching. There may be a handful that do that, but cmon, why would anyone waste that much time on a basketball board if they don't, you know, like the game of basketball?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    I honestly don't think they change much. Advance stats help contextualize regular stats, but people have always been able to tell when a guys stats are inflated or make him look better than he actually is.

    A lot of GMs still sign guys to crazy contracts even when their advance stats suggest other stats are inflated. And coaches put on players who are game changers, even if their stats don't always indicate the impact they have on the court.

    It just gives fans of the game more to talk about.
    Well said
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  5. #50
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    How could you like the game more by using advanced? While the game is on do you break out a calculator and start formulating W/S's? Dumb. Do you guys watch a game and say "Player "a" had a very good game". Then run to the stat site and say "I take that back, player "a" had a very bad game according to the advanced stats". Get the **** outta here and take your stupid *** stats with you. And if anyone wants to play me one on one i'll dunk on you the whole game and you can tell me what my stats were with nuts on your chin. hahahahaha

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickdymez View Post
    How could you like the game more by using advanced? While the game is on do you break out a calculator and start formulating W/S's? Dumb. Do you guys watch a game and say "Player "a" had a very good game". Then run to the stat site and say "I take that back, player "a" had a very bad game according to the advanced stats". Get the **** outta here and take your stupid *** stats with you. And if anyone wants to play me one on one i'll dunk on you the whole game and you can tell me what my stats were with nuts on your chin. hahahahaha
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba.../?sct=uk_wr_a2

    Yet another analytics-driven team will win the NBA title. Since 2004, five franchises (Heat, Spurs, Celtics, Lakers and Mavericks) have won an NBA title. All five scout, coach and/or make personnel decisions as informed by analytics, and this season's eventual champion will almost certainly follow suit. Miami and Oklahoma City are the favorites from each conference, and both run quiet, diligent forays into the quantitative side of the game. The Spurs and Grizzlies are also very much a part of that conversation, with the former being among the most numbers-savvy team cultures in sports and the latter having recently hired ESPN.com stat-head John Hollinger as vice president of basketball operations. Odds are good that one of those smart, analytics-inclined teams walks away with the Larry O'Brien trophy this season, in only the latest example of new-wave thinking making a significant difference in the way basketball operations are run.

    Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba...#ixzz2GUQcuksP
    Not that I would expect you to care, but as many have told you, either accept advanced analytics, or fall behind dude. Notice your own team uses them....

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba.../?sct=uk_wr_a2



    Not that I would expect you to care, but as many have told you, either accept advanced analytics, or fall behind dude. Notice your own team uses them....
    Fall behind what? Im fine just watching the games and utterly enjoying them that way

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    They both play the game for themselves first and foremost, and the statistics are awfully similar. i don't know which ones you are looking at. Not saying identical, but close. they both shoot (shot) at a low enough percentage to indicate they didn't seem to know they were hurting their teams by doing so.


    The biggest difference is the way basketball fans no longer embrace the notion of a solo gunslinger on the court. If you swapped the two of them in time Allen Iverson never becomes as big as star. A superstar? Sure. But not one that is revered the way Iverson was in the early 2000's. Ellis is a perfect example of how the attitudes in basketball have changed. He produces 90% of what Iverson did and gets the cold shoulder.



    you are talking to a guy who hasn't had tv in more than 6 years. the only times i've seen him play have been games against my raptors. this opinion is based on things other than the "eye".
    According to advanced stats that's completely ignorant. A.I.'s shooting never hurt his team as every single season in his NBA career he was a positive player in terms of his offensive statistical value. Even the later years. Monta on the other hand has statistically hurt his team in every season in the league and has been of negative statistical value every year. Anyone who thinks A.I.'s shooting hurt his team in more ways than it helped 1. never watched him player and 2. don't have an understanding of the advanced stats in which they are watching.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swashcuff View Post
    According to advanced stats that's completely ignorant. A.I.'s shooting never hurt his team as every single season in his NBA career he was a positive player in terms of his offensive statistical value. Even the later years. Monta on the other hand has statistically hurt his team in every season in the league and has been of negative statistical value every year. Anyone who thinks A.I.'s shooting hurt his team in more ways than it helped 1. never watched him player and 2. don't have an understanding of the advanced stats in which they are watching.

    Well there must be a lot of people on here that fit that description because one of the most popular PSD myths is that "AI was a overrated chucker."

    You know we have heard that from numerous posters for years.


    BRIA MYLES.....SWAG!

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Starks View Post
    Well there must be a lot of people on here that fit that description because one of the most popular PSD myths is that "AI was a overrated chucker."

    You know we have heard that from numerous posters for years.
    For those who think he's a top 10-20 player of all time they are indeed overrating him as a player. And yes he was a chucker don't think anyone would deny that but his value to his teams was evident even with his chucking ways. Could he have done things differently that would have benefited the team a bit more (as well as his #s) yes but in some circumstances it was warranted and if that is what some of his coaches wanted of him (of course not the utterly idiotic shots he took on occasion but to be a volume scorer) why should he have been any different.

    The term that he was an overrated chucker has been used so much in relation to A.I. that he's actually starting to become underrated.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickdymez View Post
    Fall behind what? Im fine just watching the games and utterly enjoying them that way
    your understanding of the game will fall behind. Believe or don't, though I know your retort...

    The NBA has embraced advanced stats, the last 5 champs are onboard heavily. You can choose to ignore them and call them useless all you want, they are a large part of front offices now, whether you like them, understand them, or not. Maybe you are really bad at math, and just don't understand them, not sure. Nor do I care.
    Last edited by Hawkeye15; 12-29-2012 at 10:34 PM.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickdymez View Post
    How could you like the game more by using advanced?
    Prolly the same way GM's and scouts love them. By giving more accurate insight. I would delve deeper but something tells me it would fall on deaf ears
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    your understanding of the game will fall behind. Believe or don't, though I know your retort...

    The NBA has embraced advanced stats, the last 5 champs are onboard heavily. You can choose to ignore them and call them useless all you want, they are a large part of front offices now, whether you like them, understand them, or not. Maybe you are really bad at math, and just don't understand them, not sure. Nor do I care.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Prolly the same way GM's and scouts love them. By giving more accurate insight. I would delve deeper but something tells me it would fall on deaf ears
    Are any of you two in a front office of an NBA team? If not, then why bother? I'd imagine that front office's are using them because they believe it gives them some sort of advantage. Fans using them as a way to "enjoy the game better" is ridiculous to me. Enjoy the game by grabbing a beer, sitting with some friends, and just watching what transpires.

  14. #59
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    This thread made look up Ryan's BB rate


    The Cult of Gattis

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    loses the most - Iverson. in the light of advanced stats he looks an awful lot like Monta Ellis.
    LOL...... are you srs right now?


    2012 allstar

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