WWE: Attidue Era: Steve Austin vs John Cena

[Bellz]

What lesser opponents has Cena made look great? All of his best matches are with HoFs or Future HoFs. Granted, Rock's era was more stacked, but he can't control that.

I know Rock was not the best in the ring, but he was better than Cena. I honestly think being able to sell things is sometimes the best part of a match, which is my one true issue with Cena at times. And yes both of their submissions look like crap.

I will say this in defense of Cena though, he is a power wrestler. Most guys who are super strong, aren't the most fluid in the ring.

Im confused with what your saying here... Your saying the only reason Cena has put on great matches is because of the hofers but rock did the same thing but it isn't his fault?

[Knowledge]

Im confused with what your saying here... Your saying the only reason Cena has put on great matches is because of the hofers but rock did the same thing but it isn't his fault?

No. I'm saying that Rock is the better wrestler, and while his era may have been deeper, you can't use that against him. That makes making it to the top all that more meaningful (because the competition was tougher).

[Knowledge]

You must have meant to quote someone else. I'm not sure where I mentioned anything about the technical ability of a wrestler. In fact, I said overall.

They're so similar in the ring. Yes, Rock is a better seller. But he's quite goofy at that as well. They have the same style in the ring, and pretty much the same resume when it comes to quality matches. I will say that Cena can get better matches out of lesser opponents than the Rock can, has has during his career.

The win-loss thing is irrelevant. If anything, it makes it tougher for Cena to do a good job in the ring. It's a different era now than it was 12 years ago. If you put Cena in the ring back then, he's going to be comparable to the Rock. If you put Rock in the ring now, he's going to be comparable to Cena.

Both guys are where they are because of their charisma and because they understand how to work a match. But I do think that Cena's resume is far more versatile than the Rock's, who if you take out Triple H and Stone Cold his resume looks quite bland (I'm talking only about quality matches here). Some of it is longevity, but Cena has had more great matches out of more wrestlers, and again, I think Cena is easily better than the Rock was at getting good matches out of bad wrestlers.

At the end of the day, they're pretty much even when it comes in-ring quality.

Quick question for you: If Rock and Cena are both in their prime, who is the top guy?*

I disagree with a lot of that. The only thing I can say I do agree with is that both guys are charismatic and can work a match (Cena isn't bad when in the ring with the right opponent). I think Cena, like most power performers, just isn't as versatile in the ring as Rock though.

Also I have not seen Cena put on a good match with someone lesser. Could you name someone, for reference purposes?

Cena has had all of Rock's opponents (minus Stone Cold), yet his matches with them weren't better than Rocks. I doubt a Cena/HHH iron man match would beat Rock/HHH. Was Cena/Angle better than Rock/Angle?

[SACNYY]

I can't believe people are really debating this.

[Bellz]

No. I'm saying that Rock is the better wrestler, and while his era may have been deeper, you can't use that against him. That makes making it to the top all that more meaningful (because the competition was tougher).

Quick question for you: If Rock and Cena are both in their prime, who is the top guy?*

Cena has had all of Rock's opponents (minus Stone Cold), yet his matches with them weren't better than Rocks. I doubt a Cena/HHH iron man match would beat Rock/HHH. Was Cena/Angle better than Rock/Angle?

And now your contradicting yourself..... You said Rock has faced competion in his time but then here you say he has faced everyone rock has minus SCSA....

I think Rock is better in ring then Cena. Not by much but is still better. Cena has put on great matches with Orton/Punk/Angle/Taker/Brock/Y2J/Edge/HBK/HHH/Punk. He has even put on decent matches with Jbl/Show/Carlito who aren't all that in the ring. Rock had Foley/Y2J/HHH/Taker/scsa/hhh/Angle and I can't relly rem a match those guys weren't involved in that Rock put on a "good" match. Both needed good works to put on great matches adn neither of them could really do great without another good worker in the ring

[yankeefan54]

Kurt angle has always said cena is popular good on the mic and bad as a wrestler. Guys have to get cena through matches.

[Bellz]

Kurt angle has always said cena is popular good on the mic and bad as a wrestler. Guys have to get cena through matches.

Agreed 100% on this. Trying to agrue who is better in ring Rock/Cena is like asking which is better coke/pespi. Both are basically the same in ring just one is a tad better.

[yankeefan54]

Honestly the other thing is we have all seen cena have plenty of matches the last 10 years where as the rock has had like 3 since 2004. Cena was terrible when he first debut. He was really bad. But did get better over the years. I watched the rock vs cena dvd on netflix and it is kinda funny how every one liked cena when he debut cause he was the underdog and the 3rd guy behind lesnar and batista coming up from ovw and once he was gaining success we all hated him. Wwe was desperate once the rock and brock left and gave him the keys. The other thing that hurts cena imo is that he can talk but wwe has watered him down a ton. He is uncreative most of the time on the mic. So his poor wrestling abilities are highlighted even more cause there is nothing he is giving the fans. Where as the rock no matter what is great on the mic no matter what.

[Rivera]

Cena has to be poked to deliver on the mic cause sometimes he has to get through the face / pg kid fodder out the way before he makes his point

He would of been better in the attitude era cause he would constantly be pushed which would make his mic skills better plus he would have more freedom in the mic

I think cena would have been at the DDP level in the attitude era there essentially the same guy

[Knowledge]

^I like your analysis. Probably better worded than anything I could have thought to say.

And now your contradicting yourself..... You said Rock has faced competion in his time but then here you say he has faced everyone rock has minus SCSA....

I think Rock is better in ring then Cena. Not by much but is still better. Cena has put on great matches with Orton/Punk/Angle/Taker/Brock/Y2J/Edge/HBK/HHH/Punk. He has even put on decent matches with Jbl/Show/Carlito who aren't all that in the ring. Rock had Foley/Y2J/HHH/Taker/scsa/hhh/Angle and I can't relly rem a match those guys weren't involved in that Rock put on a "good" match. Both needed good works to put on great matches adn neither of them could really do great without another good worker in the ring

Your taking my words and twisting them (era is not equal to opponents). Let me be very specific here: if you look at Rock's era, it was more stacked with talent than Cena's era (From the top of the card to the bottom of the card).

If you look at Cena's best matches and Rocks best matches, they involved quite a few of the same opponents(Angle/Y2J/Taker/HHH/Beniot), but that doesn't mean their era's were equal.

As far as Cena working matches with JBL/Show/Carltio, I can't sit here and act like I watched those matches. Someone else would have to comment on how good they were. All I can say is that from watching Cena in the ring and Rock in the ring, I think Rock is clearly the better performer in the ring.

I saw Cena/Angle and I don't think it was as good as Rock/Angle. I don't think Cena has ever had a match with HHH better than Rock. Y2J had better matches with Rock than Cena too. You give Rock Orton or Punk (who he will face) in his prime and I think he puts on a better show than Cena with any of those guys. The difference between the two is clear to me though neither will be mistaken for Angle anytime soon.

[Dmac]

I'm not going to get into the debate of Rock and Cena because it has been beaten to death already. But for anyone to say Cena wouldn't have gotten over in the attitude era is just plain wrong. His rapper gimmick would have been over huge in that era. You need to see some of his work in that gimmick and forget about this current gimmick because that is the Cena that would have been in that era and it would have thrived.

People like Too cool and New Age Outlaws were over big in that era, and they weren't all that great. You can't tell me the Outlaws were better in the ring or better on the mic then the rapper gimmick. He would have been more popular than all of them. A heel rapper Cena would have been a great opponent for Rock and Austin.

[Bellz]

Honestly the other thing is we have all seen cena have plenty of matches the last 10 years where as the rock has had like 3 since 2004. Cena was terrible when he first debut. He was really bad. But did get better over the years. I watched the rock vs cena dvd on netflix and it is kinda funny how every one liked cena when he debut cause he was the underdog and the 3rd guy behind lesnar and batista coming up from ovw and once he was gaining success we all hated him. Wwe was desperate once the rock and brock left and gave him the keys. The other thing that hurts cena imo is that he can talk but wwe has watered him down a ton. He is uncreative most of the time on the mic. So his poor wrestling abilities are highlighted even more cause there is nothing he is giving the fans. Where as the rock no matter what is great on the mic no matter what.

Hold on.... WWE waters down Cena a ton like you said so you don't think the reason he is "uncreative" may be because of them being water downed and not him writting that b/s which he prob doesn't? I've had a million disccussions with you about Cena on the mic and you've said Cena in a heel before full out PG was good/great on the mic.

^I like your analysis. Probably better worded than anything I could have thought to say.



Your taking my words and twisting them (era is not equal to opponents). Let me be very specific here: if you look at Rock's era, it was more stacked with talent than Cena's era (From the top of the card to the bottom of the card).

If you look at Cena's best matches and Rocks best matches, they involved quite a few of the same opponents(Angle/Y2J/Taker/HHH/Beniot), but that doesn't mean their era's were equal.

As far as Cena working matches with JBL/Show/Carltio, I can't sit here and act like I watched those matches. Someone else would have to comment on how good they were. All I can say is that from watching Cena in the ring and Rock in the ring, I think Rock is clearly the better performer in the ring.

I saw Cena/Angle and I don't think it was as good as Rock/Angle. I don't think Cena has ever had a match with HHH better than Rock. Y2J had better matches with Rock than Cena too. You give Rock Orton or Punk (who he will face) in his prime and I think he puts on a better show than Cena with any of those guys. The difference between the two is clear to me though neither will be mistaken for Angle anytime soon.

I agree 100% with what your saying. Rock is better in ring then Cena.. But it isn't by a mile. Like you said and I've said if you put either of them in a match with a horrible in ring worker it will be a bad match. Rock/Y2J , How do I word this with out somebody attacking me or getting there feelings hurt here..... I really think the chemistry these two had on the mic and in the ring they are the best two minus scsa/vkm you can get to pair together all time in a feud in my eyes. Y2J has even said in his book that him and rock loved working with ecthougher and asked never to work on the same side because they were awesome. In my eyes Rock/Y2J is top 5 feuds/mic/in ring of all-time to me.

And I'm not attacking either of you. Because I do agree with some of your points and your prob the only 2 anti-cena guys who back up "Cena sucks" and doesn't just leave it at that like most

[Bellz]

I'm not going to get into the debate of Rock and Cena because it has been beaten to death already. But for anyone to say Cena wouldn't have gotten over in the attitude era is just plain wrong. His rapper gimmick would have been over huge in that era. You need to see some of his work in that gimmick and forget about this current gimmick because that is the Cena that would have been in that era and it would have thrived.

People like Too cool and New Age Outlaws were over big in that era, and they weren't all that great. You can't tell me the Outlaws were better in the ring or better on the mic then the rapper gimmick. He would have been more popular than all of them. A heel rapper Cena would have been a great opponent for Rock and Austin.

I think it would've be in order....(not counting Vince or HBK since he didn't really play that much of role in the prime of this era)

1. SCSA - I don't think anybody could've unset him in this era has number 1. Rock couldn't.... Heel or face hogan I doubt it... Any Cena.... GOD

2. Taker - Has been over in 3 different eras...

3. Rock - Number 2 face behind SCSA.

4. Rapper Cena.... But I just cant get the image of him starting to cut a rap promo on SCSA. SCSA saying "WHAT ?" And they just stunnering him to hell. I think heel Cena would've have been over but prob never champ kinda like Y2J in that era

[yankeefan54]

[QUOTE=Mbellz3o8;24901568]Hold on.... WWE waters down Cena a ton like you said so you don't think the reason he is "uncreative" may be because of them being water downed and not him writting that b/s which he prob doesn't? I've had a million disccussions with you about Cena on the mic and you've said Cena in a heel before full out PG was good/great on the mic.

Wwe holds him back but at the same time other guys are restricted too and come up with decent material. Btw have you seen rock vs cena on netflix? It may be worth watching gave insight on both rock and cena from other wrestlers freinds and family. Had great info on both rock and cena.

[SACNYY]

WWE doesn't hold Cena down. He refuses to change his character. I don't have the article with the proof but it's out there.