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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    Did SCSA suck in the ring because post neck injury, he was no longer a technical wrestler, he was a brawler. His matches with full of punches and kicks

    Once again, technical wrestling is not the only form of a good wrestling. It is a mistake to try to link the two together.

    WWE wrestling is not about technicality, it is about reading the crowd and telling a story, that does not mean being technical. If so lance storm would have been more popular.
    You must have meant to quote someone else. I'm not sure where I mentioned anything about the technical ability of a wrestler. In fact, I said overall.

    They're so similar in the ring. Yes, Rock is a better seller. But he's quite goofy at that as well. They have the same style in the ring, and pretty much the same resume when it comes to quality matches. I will say that Cena can get better matches out of lesser opponents than the Rock can, has has during his career.

    The win-loss thing is irrelevant. If anything, it makes it tougher for Cena to do a good job in the ring. It's a different era now than it was 12 years ago. If you put Cena in the ring back then, he's going to be comparable to the Rock. If you put Rock in the ring now, he's going to be comparable to Cena.

    Both guys are where they are because of their charisma and because they understand how to work a match. But I do think that Cena's resume is far more versatile than the Rock's, who if you take out Triple H and Stone Cold his resume looks quite bland (I'm talking only about quality matches here). Some of it is longevity, but Cena has had more great matches out of more wrestlers, and again, I think Cena is easily better than the Rock was at getting good matches out of bad wrestlers.

    At the end of the day, they're pretty much even when it comes in-ring quality.
    Last edited by Driven; 12-28-2012 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    You must have meant to quote someone else. I'm not sure where I mentioned anything about the technical ability of a wrestler. In fact, I said overall.

    They're so similar in the ring. Yes, Rock is a better seller. But he's quite goofy at that as well. They have the same style in the ring, and pretty much the same resume when it comes to quality matches. I will say that Cena can get better matches out of lesser opponents than the Rock can, has has during his career.

    The win-loss thing is irrelevant. If anything, it makes it tougher for Cena to do a good job in the ring. It's a different era now than it was 12 years ago. If you put Cena in the ring back then, he's going to be comparable to the Rock. If you put Rock in the ring now, he's going to be comparable to Cena.

    Both guys are where they are because of their charisma and because they understand how to work a match. But I do think that Cena's resume is far more versatile than the Rock's, who if you take out Triple H and Stone Cold his resume looks quite bland (I'm talking only about quality matches here). Some of it is longevity, but Cena has had more great matches out of more wrestlers, and again, I think Cena is easily better than the Rock was at getting good matches out of bad wrestlers.

    At the end of the day, they're pretty much even when it comes in-ring quality.
    I have no idea what you are talking about. You are very wrong with your assessment of the rock. Cena can get better matches out of more wrestlers. Thats comical. I dont think the rock was the best in the ring but he is far better than cena. Some people hate on cena too much and others just try to hard to talk cena up to be some thing he is not.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    If Cena sucks in the ring, so did the Rock. There's really not too much that separates the two in the ring, in terms of overall quality.
    Everything the Rock did at least looked smooth. Cena makes some of his moveset look like complete crap. His STF looks terrible. It looks really fake (I realize wrestling's fake, but it should LOOK real). The Rock was also a crapload more athletic than Cena.

    Quote Originally Posted by goalie View Post
    I don't even think people understand why they hate cena. He's a bad actor, he is cheesy, thats why he "doesnt sell well".

    Does he jump right back up after getting choked slammed? Thats not selling well. If he didn't sell he would have a ton of lockerroom heat.

    When punk puts him to sleep he crumbles like everyone else and stays down, thats selling.


    He is a horrible actor.

    And I love reading all of the wrestling critique when we aren't actually watching anyone wrestle. Cena gets the "you can't wrestle" because of the 5 moves of doom, yet every top wrestler is given their script of moves to run through. Can RVD wrestle? Nobody killed RVD everyweek, until now of course because he's been around too long. But week after week in WWE he got a huge pop and the IWC loved that hack. Yet once the bell rings its the same crap over and over again. Whats the difference between Cena and RVD, besides the fact that RVD can jump, spin and flick a weak kick at his opponent?

    There are guys like Eddie that grow up in a ring or like Angle that wrestle their whole life, those guys are great wrestlers. But if you're standards for judging wreslters begins and ends with a real wrestling background then you won't have a whole lot of people on TV every week.

    Would any of you call Hacksaw Jim Duggan a great wrestler? He was probably one of the best real wrestlers in that lockerroom in the 80's. Would any realize that Hacksaw was probably one of the best athletes and smartest people to ever come through the business? No because he stuck to his script of moves and his gimmick.

    Cena=Hogan, stop expecting more. They can't turn a D3 offensive lineman into a high flying ring rat, he is what he is.

    Some of the greatest wreslters of all time were guys that were just picked out of a weight room and invited to a camp. Hogan, Road Warriors, this list goes on. Not all of these guys are great wrestlers.

    I bet Joe Henning is a great wrestler and athlete, where is he?
    I already explained how his selling is poor. Yes, he is a poor actor. That's part of selling. Oh, and for the record, I don't hate Cena. I actually like him. He's dependable in the ring, but he looks sloppy at times. He's improved leaps and bounds over where he was when he first started.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mbellz3o8 View Post
    The Rock Bottom - Peoples Elbow - Angle Slam - Hogan Leg Drop all look like it hurtsd?
    Rock Bottom (picking the guy up and slamming him into the ground onto his back while putting some of your weight into him, Angle Slam (which is almost like a spinning Samoan drop), and Hogan's leg drop (a 300 lb. man is jumping into the air and landing on you with most of his weight landing on your head) all looked at least kind of painful. The People's Elbow did not, but it was usually done either after a spinebuster or after a Rock Bottom as a move to inflict just a little more pain on the opponent.

    Why does the AA look weak? Because none of Cena's weight is going into the guy except maybe an arm occasionally. I don't see him changing his finisher this far along in his career, so it's moot point.
    Last edited by CubbieKid17; 12-28-2012 at 11:57 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by CubbieKid17 View Post
    Everything the Rock did at least looked smooth. Cena makes some of his moveset look like complete crap. His STF looks terrible. It looks really fake (I realize wrestling's fake, but it should LOOK real). The Rock was also a crapload more athletic than Cena.
    Have you seen the Rock's sharpshooter?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankeefan54 View Post
    I have no idea what you are talking about. You are very wrong with your assessment of the rock. Cena can get better matches out of more wrestlers. Thats comical. I dont think the rock was the best in the ring but he is far better than cena. Some people hate on cena too much and others just try to hard to talk cena up to be some thing he is not.
    The problem is that people are looking at Cena on a week to week basis. Meanwhile people are remembering Rock for his big moments or on a PPV to PPV basis.

    Take a list of the Rock's best matches. Take a list of Cena's best matches.

    Go through their entire resumes. You'll see that Cena can get more out of lesser opponents than Rock did. And you'll see that Cena has a much wider variety of opponents than Rock did in those top matches.

    Some of it is longevity, but some of it isn't.

    I am not talking up Cena as much as I am talking down the Rock, I think. It's funny how over the past ten years, he is considered better in the ring as those years went along, even though he was retired.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    Have you seen the Rock's sharpshooter?
    Yes, it didn't always look great. In fact, sometimes it looked like complete crap. But sometimes it looked decent. I don't know if I've ever seen Cena do an STF that doesn't just look like he's grabbing his arm and flexing to make it look like he's pulling. 90% of the time, his arms aren't even on the guy's chin.

  7. #37
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    Both Cena's STF and Rock's sharpshooter were God awful.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    The problem is that people are looking at Cena on a week to week basis. Meanwhile people are remembering Rock for his big moments or on a PPV to PPV basis.

    Take a list of the Rock's best matches. Take a list of Cena's best matches.

    Go through their entire resumes. You'll see that Cena can get more out of lesser opponents than Rock did. And you'll see that Cena has a much wider variety of opponents than Rock did in those top matches.

    Some of it is longevity, but some of it isn't.

    I am not talking up Cena as much as I am talking down the Rock, I think. It's funny how over the past ten years, he is considered better in the ring as those years went along, even though he was retired.
    How is that Rock's fault? That was just the nature of the business back then. Wrestlers feuded for a while back then and it didn't get stale so fast. Cena has the luxury of working with a lot more different wrestlers, simply because feuds get stale really fast.

    I agree with the 2nd bolded. Maybe I'm just a huge Rock fan that chooses to remember him how I reacted to him as a kid. I was emotionally invested in Rock's matches as a 10 year old and into my mid-teens. I don't get emotionally invested in Cena's matches unless he's working with someone really good. I was at MITB when Cena and CM Punk faced. It was amazing. That was arguably the best match of Cena's career. If he had more matches like that, I think people would like him a lot more.

    To Cena's credit, he is forced down our throats a lot more due to the lack of alternatives. During the Attitude Era, sure Rock was forced down our throats, but there were plenty of alternatives to choose from. That's one of the reasons why I think Cena would've been a star in the Attitude Era. He's fantastic on the mic, and probably would've been even better in the Attitude Era, where he would have been allowed to cut loose and not be such a white-meat babyface.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    Both Cena's STF and Rock's sharpshooter were God awful.
    Ok, they both were. I won't argue that anymore, because at this point it's just arguing over which turd looks shinier haha.

  10. #40
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    What lesser opponents has Cena made look great? All of his best matches are with HoFs or Future HoFs. Granted, Rock's era was more stacked, but he can't control that.

    I know Rock was not the best in the ring, but he was better than Cena. I honestly think being able to sell things is sometimes the best part of a match, which is my one true issue with Cena at times. And yes both of their submissions look like crap.

    I will say this in defense of Cena though, he is a power wrestler. Most guys who are super strong, aren't the most fluid in the ring.
    Last edited by Knowledge; 12-29-2012 at 01:50 AM.
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    "I'm probably pretty boring to watch a game with because I''m all about expected values. I don''t even care if it goes in or not, I'm all about, '‘Should it go in?'' I can live with randomness. I mean, if it''s a close game in the end, yeah, I''m just like anyone else. But I just want us to play the odds all the time."
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  11. #41
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    Smh @ people thinking cena is equal or better to the rock in ring. Cena doesn't do one thing better than the rock, except for time for philanthropy and appealing to little kids.
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  12. #42
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    Ive seen probably 80 percent of the rocks matches on tv and ppv. Noway is cena better in anyway.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by yankeefan54 View Post
    ive seen probably 80 percent of the rocks matches on tv and ppv. Noway is cena better in anyway.
    +1

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knowledge View Post
    Did SCSA suck in the ring because post neck injury, he was no longer a technical wrestler, he was a brawler. His matches with full of punches and kicks

    Once again, technical wrestling is not the only form of a good wrestling. It is a mistake to try to link the two together.

    WWE wrestling is not about technicality, it is about reading the crowd and telling a story, that does not mean being technical. If so lance storm would have been more popular.
    Agreed. Something people don't understand....

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by jerellh528 View Post
    Smh @ people thinking cena is equal or better to the rock in ring. Cena doesn't do one thing better than the rock, except for time for philanthropy and appealing to little kids.
    Exactly. This thread makes me lose faith in humanity lol.

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