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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by old blue View Post
    I love these insightful thoughts. Coaching is teaching, it is also dealing with individuals and making judgements. You can make the best use of stats as possible, but you still must know the individual. Sometimes you must throw the book out the window and follow your instincts. But unless you have coached for sometime it is hard to understand. Give me that old foggie as you say and have some stats man there as an assistant and you can have the best of both worlds. Give me someone who follows the book at every step and I will show you someone who is easy to defeat
    When I used to coach an entire team I organized my lineup by OBP. Some of the parents were upset, because subjectively it didn't look right. But we scored like crazy. Some parents wanted their kids to be catchers. OK, you guys warmed up? OK, line up behind home, pop out of a crouch and throw a no hop throw to 2nd. Can't do it? Can't be a catcher - for now. Sometimes, it's common sense, sometimes you adapt.

    I never let my pitchers throw a strike with a 4 seam FB. Why? Because in AAU baseball, anybody can hit a FB. Neck high or ankle high or outside as a show pitch. You'll notice heavy set RHH go after high pitches a lot, so that's what you call for. otherwise Usually 2 seam, cutter, change, occasional CB.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    When I used to coach an entire team I organized my lineup by OBP. Some of the parents were upset, because subjectively it didn't look right. But we scored like crazy. Some parents wanted their kids to be catchers. OK, you guys warmed up? OK, line up behind home, pop out of a crouch and throw a no hop throw to 2nd. Can't do it? Can't be a catcher - for now. Sometimes, it's common sense, sometimes you adapt.

    I never let my pitchers throw a strike with a 4 seam FB. Why? Because in AAU baseball, anybody can hit a FB. Neck high or ankle high or outside as a show pitch. You'll notice heavy set RHH go after high pitches a lot, so that's what you call for. otherwise Usually 2 seam, cutter, change, occasional CB.
    This is so true on so many levels, pitching in high school I loved facing them.
    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    This is getting old. Enough is enough. Redskin Is not offensive and it will never change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    I want to start a website where people who say this video tape themselves going up to Native Americans and go "hey what's up redskin?" and then upload what happens.

    I'll call it WhatsUpRedskin.com



    You want to go first?
    I fully support this future site.

  3. #63
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    How do you decide what the facts are. Are they just numbers? Would you sign a player just based on his numbers and not seeing him? All I know is that have sent many kids onto college and a few have been drafted and I have sent stats videos ,but when it comes down to it they either trust my opinion or they want to see him play. Granted this is a little different than what happens at the MLB level. But bottom line, their stats don't mean diddly for a high school player who is looking to move on to the next level. Back to the original question, today's players will be judged by today's tools and the old,players will be judged by their stats of their era Bottom line. Not much different than the ped Issue and guys getting into hof. That is the era on which they are and will be judged by.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    When I used to coach an entire team I organized my lineup by OBP. Some of the parents were upset, because subjectively it didn't look right. But we scored like crazy. Some parents wanted their kids to be catchers. OK, you guys warmed up? OK, line up behind home, pop out of a crouch and throw a no hop throw to 2nd. Can't do it? Can't be a catcher - for now. Sometimes, it's common sense, sometimes you adapt.

    I never let my pitchers throw a strike with a 4 seam FB. Why? Because in AAU baseball, anybody can hit a FB. Neck high or ankle high or outside as a show pitch. You'll notice heavy set RHH go after high pitches a lot, so that's what you call for. otherwise Usually 2 seam, cutter, change, occasional CB.
    Awesome. I have done that as well.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by old blue View Post
    Glad you know me and my background. Think a scout gives a rats *** about stats when they are looking at a prospect. Suppose Maris is one of the best power hitters ever, based on his stats and his record. As you say I saw a guy hit a home run. Etc. I also would like to see the pitcher. Stats are good and usefull but they don't always tell the whole story. Did stats tell you that tony Perez was a good hitter. But I would love to have him up with runners in scoring position. Don't need a stat book to figure that out. So a guy gets 3 seeing eyes hits and another lines out 3x. I know what your stats will tell you. Stats are useful for the agent and his client also, I stand by my statement that I don't need stats to tell if someone can play or not. Maybe my argument has more merit from the scouting , recruiting and coaching perspective but that is all I have to go by. Like I said I am not a stat geek or a fantasy league player or a sports reporter. I just know that they are useful to a point, but they don't tell you the whole story on how good a player is or what their abilities are.
    There are a ton more scouts now that are much more heavily stat knowledged then you are giving credit for. Very literally I have a family member who is a professional scout for the Indians, and a friend who is the head cross checker for the Baltimore Orioles. Both know sabr-metrics far better than I do, and I'm probably one of the more sabr-friendly people on here. Scouts know way more about this stuff than you are giving them credit for.


    Without stats, you have no idea how good a player like Alex Gordon and Ben Zobrist really are, and how they compare to their colleagues at the same positions.

    Guys like Zobrist, Pujols, and Trevor Rosenthall fall all the time in the draft because scouts don't know exactly what makes them so special.

    Fortunately, scouts are continuing to improve (at least the new generation of them). You have a ton of old school scouts obviously that don't give a **** about stats, but there are a ton that do. Look at the most recent wave of scouting directors that have become GM's. Most of them are very sabr-friendly, and their entire background is scouting. Jeff Luhnow anyone? Huge sabr-nerd, and he assembled a top 5 farm system in St. Louis with nobody's before going to Houston to be their GM this past year.


    I think baseball has evolved more than you might realize. Stats aren't just informative anymore. They tell the rest of the story that you aren't seeing. They are logic, they are information, and they can not be ignored, and they are not just for fantasy baseball. I have never even played fantasy baseball myself. Stats are information that help to describe the game you are watching, and helps to analyze it so you have an accurate grasp of what is happening. You can watch it, but it takes a lot of watching to have an idea how good a player is, you won't know that from one game, or even a handful.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rad_Racing View Post
    I'd throw Will Clark in the mix. Didn't even make it past the first ballot, when guys like Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez did.
    My favorite of all time tied with BB. Injuries hurt him, and what I believe also hurts him is he went from a more dead ball era o the 80s and straddled right Ito the absurdness that was 90s baseball hitting. He was also a stud though, and has possibly one of the most perfect, technically and visually, swings of all time.

    Not to mention what he did to the Cubs in the playoffs should be a felony, because he murdered that entire team.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    There are a ton more scouts now that are much more heavily stat knowledged then you are giving credit for. Very literally I have a family member who is a professional scout for the Indians, and a friend who is the head cross checker for the Baltimore Orioles. Both know sabr-metrics far better than I do, and I'm probably one of the more sabr-friendly people on here. Scouts know way more about this stuff than you are giving them credit for.


    Without stats, you have no idea how good a player like Alex Gordon and Ben Zobrist really are, and how they compare to their colleagues at the same positions.

    Guys like Zobrist, Pujols, and Trevor Rosenthall fall all the time in the draft because scouts don't know exactly what makes them so special. N

    Fortunately, scouts are continuing to improve (at least the new generation of them). You have a ton of old school scouts obviously that don't give a **** about stats, but there are a ton that do. Look at the most recent wave of scouting directors that have become GM's. Most of them are very sabr-friendly, and their entire background is scouting. Jeff Luhnow anyone? Huge sabr-nerd, and he assembled a top 5 farm system in St. Louis with nobody's before going to Houston to be their GM this past year.


    I think baseball has evolved more than you might realize. Stats aren't just informative anymore. They tell the rest of the story that you aren't seeing. They are logic, they are information, and they can not be ignored, and they are not just for fantasy baseball. I have never even played fantasy baseball myself. Stats are information that help to describe the game you are watching, and helps to analyze it so you have an accurate grasp of what is happening. You can watch it, but it takes a lot of watching to have an idea how good a player is, you won't know that from one game, or even a handful.
    Couldn't agree with this more, except for defensive metrics of course. They are bull **** lol.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by old blue View Post
    How do you decide what the facts are. Are they just numbers? Would you sign a player just based on his numbers and not seeing him? All I know is that have sent many kids onto college and a few have been drafted and I have sent stats videos ,but when it comes down to it they either trust my opinion or they want to see him play. Granted this is a little different than what happens at the MLB level. But bottom line, their stats don't mean diddly for a high school player who is looking to move on to the next level.
    Obviously you have to compare the kid to who they are playing against and the level of competition. Divisional play, seasonal weather, how much are they playing, what sort of frame (body) they have, what they have developed so far, what their work ethic appears to be, their character, and their ability to adjust.

    Scouts have to do all of this, they also get to know the kids decently well, find out what they will sign for, what their goals and aspirations are.

    But their stats aren't worthless either. Kevin Youkilis is a scouts nightmare (he doesn't do anything right), but he has been a damned fine and productive big leaguer. Same with Hunter Pence. Hunter Pence is a story book on how to not play the game of baseball. Was a second round pick in 04 out of UT Arlington partly because of the numbers he put up (All American and team MVP). He hit .412/.489/.713.

    The numbers answer the questions you have of the games you don't witness as a scout. They fill in the blanks.

    A buddy down here at SEMO got drafted this past year mainly because of his numbers (Trenton Moses). Scouts weren't really in love with him, but the Braves took him partially because of his college numbers and because they knew he was an easy sign (26th rounder).

    It's plain silly to think the numbers don't mean anything. Every big league team uses statistical analysis greatly. It isn't just for fantasy baseball, not even close.

    As for which stats matter, that's the great debate among clubs and fans. Not everything matters, and everything deserves context. Some things mean more to others than other things. Depends who you talk to.

  9. #69
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    There is no doubt that stats are an important art of baseball. If they aren't informative then what are they. They are just another tool. Stats can't tell you what's inside a guy or his desire. Thus all the questioners that are sent out to prospective draft picks. I am very much aware of the role of stats in baseball, but why send scouts to watch A kid ,Just email their stats in. That would go over really well would it not. Stats can't tell a scout if a kid had a good swing that will transfer into a good prospect. Stats can't tell you about a kids foot work, knowledge of the game or his desire to play. Correct me if I am wrong, but arm speed,leg speed, swing and bat speed are tools that scouts look at. Not to mention they watch their actions and want to know what kind of person they are. Not sure stats can give you all of that. Sure. At higher levels. There is cost analysis and stat comparison, but before a trade don't the send a scout to watch them play? In high school we use pitching and hitting charts and know where to position def players etched. So yes stats are important,but
    I personally don't need them to tell me a guy has talent or not. That is called experience

  10. #70
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    i feel like i'm watching moneyball.the scene when pitt brings in seth rogan to join the team and all the old guys are are *****ing

  11. #71
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    Not sure that Oakland goes by that theory as much today. But I do like the statement beane made. Are we selling pants or finding ball players. Thought the same thing. Truth is that both parts are extremely Important parts in evaluating a player.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Obviously you have to compare the kid to who they are playing against and the level of competition. Divisional play, seasonal weather, how much are they playing, what sort of frame (body) they have, what they have developed so far, what their work ethic appears to be, their character, and their ability to adjust.

    Scouts have to do all of this, they also get to know the kids decently well, find out what they will sign for, what their goals and aspirations are.

    But their stats aren't worthless either. Kevin Youkilis is a scouts nightmare (he doesn't do anything right), but he has been a damned fine and productive big leaguer. Same with Hunter Pence. Hunter Pence is a story book on how to not play the game of baseball. Was a second round pick in 04 out of UT Arlington partly because of the numbers he put up (All American and team MVP). He hit .412/.489/.713.

    The numbers answer the questions you have of the games you don't witness as a scout. They fill in the blanks.

    A buddy down here at SEMO got drafted this past year mainly because of his numbers (Trenton Moses). Scouts weren't really in love with him, but the Braves took him partially because of his college numbers and because they knew he was an easy sign (26th rounder).

    It's plain silly to think the numbers don't mean anything. Every big league team uses statistical analysis greatly. It isn't just for fantasy baseball, not even close.

    As for which stats matter, that's the great debate among clubs and fans. Not everything matters, and everything deserves context. Some things mean more to others than other things. Depends who you talk to.
    I respect that

  13. #73
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    Got to go shovel snow It's been fun talking with people who have baseball knowledge. The book moneyball was better than the movie. In my opinion. That is.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Obviously you have to compare the kid to who they are playing against and the level of competition. Divisional play, seasonal weather, how much are they playing, what sort of frame (body) they have, what they have developed so far, what their work ethic appears to be, their character, and their ability to adjust.

    Scouts have to do all of this, they also get to know the kids decently well, find out what they will sign for, what their goals and aspirations are.

    But their stats aren't worthless either. Kevin Youkilis is a scouts nightmare (he doesn't do anything right), but he has been a damned fine and productive big leaguer. Same with Hunter Pence. Hunter Pence is a story book on how to not play the game of baseball. Was a second round pick in 04 out of UT Arlington partly because of the numbers he put up (All American and team MVP). He hit .412/.489/.713.

    The numbers answer the questions you have of the games you don't witness as a scout. They fill in the blanks.

    A buddy down here at SEMO got drafted this past year mainly because of his numbers (Trenton Moses). Scouts weren't really in love with him, but the Braves took him partially because of his college numbers and because they knew he was an easy sign (26th rounder).

    It's plain silly to think the numbers don't mean anything. Every big league team uses statistical analysis greatly. It isn't just for fantasy baseball, not even close.

    As for which stats matter, that's the great debate among clubs and fans. Not everything matters, and everything deserves context. Some things mean more to others than other things. Depends who you talk to.
    I respect that

  15. #75
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    Sorry about the double post. That is why I have young Assistants to handle this technological stuff lol

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