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  1. #1
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    Who loses/gains the most if advanced stats come 20 years earlier?

    Which players would have been remembered differently had advanced stats gained widespread popularity in the early 90's? how about 80's?

    who gains? who loses?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #2
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    how about Joe Carter? is he a candidate? here is a guy who finished on the MVP ballot 8 times with a career OBP of .306
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  3. #3
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    Jack Morris would look a lot worse.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    Jack Morris would look a lot worse.
    Morris came to mind for me as well. Don Mattingly would look worse too.

    A guy who would look better than most would think is John Olerud. I just looked at the stats. Pretty impressive. .398 career OBP.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan View Post
    Morris came to mind for me as well. Don Mattingly would look worse too.

    A guy who would look better than most would think is John Olerud. I just looked at the stats. Pretty impressive. .398 career OBP.
    Yup

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    Jack Morris would look a lot worse.
    who would be a comparable to Jack Morris today?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    who would be a comparable to Jack Morris today?
    By ERA+ you could say Jamie Moyer (105 for Morris vs 104 for Moyer) Moyer also had a higher win total, believe it or not.

    By ERA you're looking at James Shields (3.89) or Max Scherzer (3.92) compared to Morris (3.90).

    Morris was a solid, above average pitcher, but certainly not this unstoppable force who willed his team to victory and pitched to the score when he gave up a ton of runs.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    how about Joe Carter? is he a candidate? here is a guy who finished on the MVP ballot 8 times with a career OBP of .306
    Classic choice. "Joe Carter is a great RBI man."

    Jim Rice, Nolan Ryan, Andre Dawson and a host of others would look worse.

    Joe Morgan, Ricky H., Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, Larry Walker, Alan Trammell, Sweet Lou, Reggie Smith, Bobby Bonds, Jim Wynn, and a pile more would look better.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Classic choice. "Joe Carter is a great RBI man."

    Jim Rice, Nolan Ryan, Andre Dawson and a host of others would look worse.

    Joe Morgan, Ricky H., Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, Larry Walker, Alan Trammell, Sweet Lou, Reggie Smith, Bobby Bonds, Jim Wynn, and a pile more would look better.
    so it's safe to say the guy who hit after Joe was probably always underrated haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Classic choice. "Joe Carter is a great RBI man."

    Jim Rice, Nolan Ryan, Andre Dawson and a host of others would look worse.

    Joe Morgan, Ricky H., Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, Larry Walker, Alan Trammell, Sweet Lou, Reggie Smith, Bobby Bonds, Jim Wynn, and a pile more would look better.
    why Nolan Ryan? his whip looks like it's always pretty solid. i would have thought because of the records (W-L) that he actually would be looked upon even more favorably now?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    why Nolan Ryan? his whip looks like it's always pretty solid. i would have thought because of the records (W-L) that he actually would be looked upon even more favorably now?
    Insane walk rates throughout his career.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Insane walk rates throughout his career.
    you don't think that would be neutralized somewhat by the de-emphasis on pitcher wins?
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Insane walk rates throughout his career.
    My cousin named his son after Nolan Ryan. I told him he'd learn to walk quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    why Nolan Ryan? his whip looks like it's always pretty solid. i would have thought because of the records (W-L) that he actually would be looked upon even more favorably now?
    Because of all the people that say he's the best SP of all time, most of them hypnotized by his K's.

    OTOH, he leads MLB in BB's by a greater % then he does in K's. 2nd all time in wild pitches too.

    His ERA+ marks (112) are career wise at the level of a #2-3 SP.

    His winning % above his teams (a valid way to view a long lived pitcher) is not at all impressive.

    The W-L record was always explained away by him being on poor teams, which is a complete myth, in fact his teams as a whole represent a very normal grouping of teams for a guy with his career length.

    He's someplace around 23-26th best all time based on longevity, very impressive, but he's closer to Ben Sheets in rWAR then he is to the #3 SP - Clemens. So, it's a myth he's the best of all time, one that seems to be fading these past 10 years or so.

    Koufax is the other common wrong answer, but at least Koufax had an amazing peak, something Ryan never had.


    6/27/09: “We expect [Rondo] to play by the rules and be a leader as a point guard. We need him to be more of a leader,” Ainge said. “There were just a couple situations where he was late this year, I don’t know if he was sitting in his car, but showed up late and the rest of the team was there. We have team rules and you have to be on time. He was fined for being late, he said he was stuck in traffic, and it’s just unacceptable.”

    Some jerks never learn.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagwell368 View Post
    Classic choice. "Joe Carter is a great RBI man."

    Jim Rice, Nolan Ryan, Andre Dawson and a host of others would look worse.

    Joe Morgan, Ricky H., Jeff Bagwell, Tim Raines, Larry Walker, Alan Trammell, Sweet Lou, Reggie Smith, Bobby Bonds, Jim Wynn, and a pile more would look better.

    the thing about Nolan Ryan is that you can't ignore the 7 no hitters and massive K's.

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