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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    That is because Omar went "all in" immediately upon being hired. SA is running the race of the tortoise. Omar had some success, but ultimately was deemed a failure by the bottom line, winning consistently and a WS Championship. SA's strategy is viable too, but his moves will eventually need to pan out to be judged a success according to the same bottom line.
    Omar was told to go all in by the Coupons. They needed a new stadium and would spend nothing in the draft, he had no choice.

    Alderson has no pressure whatsoever, he can't be fired, Selig would go ape, and the Mets would look even more foolish.

    I'll make you a bet right now - that the Mets never make the post-season with SA as GM.

    Bottom line, Omar Minaya for all his faults and bumbling media persona is thrashing SA silly. Alderson has been here three years, and has given up every year before the Winter meetings were over.

    He completely dropped the ball with Reyes, his trades for 'now' players have failed, his signings have flopped - on the plus side he's engineered two good trades for older players.

    When taking everything into consideration - he's done a 4-5 out of 10 job IMO.

    Basically, as fans for three disgusting seasons in which the org did not lift a finger to win, on the back of 2-3 similar disgusting seasons under Omar - we have received Wheeler, TDA, Syndergaard.

    Basically, 3 lost seasons for 3 good prospects. Doesn't seem like much to me...

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio40 View Post
    Omar was allowed to spend and had a foundation of Wright and Reyes to to start with. Its comparing Apples to Oranges.

    For the most part Minaya did a good job but the Perez and Castillo signings along with Maine getting injured and Delgado hitting grandfather time all at once really destroyed the team and set us back for years. Although all those collapses are the fault of 2 people.

    Duaner Sanchez and his cab driver. If it wasn't for the late night taxi ride this organization could have went in a completely different direction. Nady may not have been the greatest player in the world but he was clutch and gave our lineup that extra UMPH. Losing his and Sanchez prob cost us the WS as well as those late year collapses the two following years.

    Anyways back onto the original topic.

    McFly - Your really can't blame Sandy for what has gone on with this team. Do you really think he chose to let Reyes walk? I mean C'mon getting the prospects he got for Beltran and Dickey were big wins for us. Yeah we did still lose a CY Young winner and an All Star rightfielder but what do you expect him to do with the resources he has been given? It was the best decision he could have made with the resources available to him.

    P.S. Don't think for one second it was his choice to hold onto Reyes at the deadline and let him walk for nothing. That has the Wilpons stench all over it.

    You know what cost us in '07 and '08? - they did not improve the team at the deadline. The Coupons will go so far, and that's it. Also what did they do after '06 when we were on the precipice?

    N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Not only that but Omar wrecked his own BP by letting CB and Oliver go.

    This doesn't doesn't have the ambition to go for the gusto when it matters. The same thing will happen again when we get a good team again, we'll get close, and that's enough for the Coupons.

    We have no idea what Sandy really thinks about anything because he's full of it/playing PR games.

    Does anyone believe Omar had a free hand? I don't. Neither does Sandy. As such, we can only look at what happened under their regimes. SA made no effort whatsoever to resign Jose, I know that much.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    You know what cost us in '07 and '08? - they did not improve the team at the deadline. The Coupons will go so far, and that's it. Also what did they do after '06 when we were on the precipice?

    N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Not only that but Omar wrecked his own BP by letting CB and Oliver go.

    This doesn't doesn't have the ambition to go for the gusto when it matters. The same thing will happen again when we get a good team again, we'll get close, and that's enough for the Coupons.

    We have no idea what Sandy really thinks about anything because he's full of it/playing PR games.

    Does anyone believe Omar had a free hand? I don't. Neither does Sandy. As such, we can only look at what happened under their regimes. SA made no effort whatsoever to resign Jose, I know that much.
    That is my point man. Yea SA was brought in to play those PR games and this team is broke but atleast he has shown he can get us the best return possible for the players which we could no longer afford. This isn't Sandy its the Wilpons.

    Unless Sandy writes a "tell all" book after he retires we will never know what truly happened with the Reyes situation. My best guess is he was following direct orders from ownership. His deals for Dickey and Beltran were too good for the future of this team to think letting Reyes walk without trading him or atleast offering a contract was his decision.


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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Omar was told to go all in by the Coupons. They needed a new stadium and would spend nothing in the draft, he had no choice.

    Alderson has no pressure whatsoever, he can't be fired, Selig would go ape, and the Mets would look even more foolish.

    I'll make you a bet right now - that the Mets never make the post-season with SA as GM.

    Bottom line, Omar Minaya for all his faults and bumbling media persona is thrashing SA silly. Alderson has been here three years, and has given up every year before the Winter meetings were over.

    He completely dropped the ball with Reyes, his trades for 'now' players have failed, his signings have flopped - on the plus side he's engineered two good trades for older players.

    When taking everything into consideration - he's done a 4-5 out of 10 job IMO.

    Basically, as fans for three disgusting seasons in which the org did not lift a finger to win, on the back of 2-3 similar disgusting seasons under Omar - we have received Wheeler, TDA, Syndergaard.

    Basically, 3 lost seasons for 3 good prospects. Doesn't seem like much to me...
    Sandy Alderson is only signed through 2015. The odds are not good the Mets will make the playoffs in 2014 and even 2015, but hopefully the degree of probability will improve measurably. SA's job is to build a foundation for the future. That future may not arrive during his tenure as GM. He may retire after this contract. Who knows?

    Are you saying the Mets could make the playoffs with another GM? Which one and why would that person be a better choice?
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio40 View Post
    That is my point man. Yea SA was brought in to play those PR games and this team is broke but atleast he has shown he can get us the best return possible for the players which we could no longer afford. This isn't Sandy its the Wilpons.

    Unless Sandy writes a "tell all" book after he retires we will never know what truly happened with the Reyes situation. My best guess is he was following direct orders from ownership. His deals for Dickey and Beltran were too good for the future of this team to think letting Reyes walk without trading him or atleast offering a contract was his decision.

    No, I'm not having that. That's just a way of deflecting criticism away from Alderson. If he's getting praised for Wheeler, he's getting blamed for Jose.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Sandy Alderson is only signed through 2015. The odds are not good the Mets will make the playoffs in 2014 and even 2015, but hopefully the degree of probability will improve measurably. SA's job is to build a foundation for the future. That future may not arrive during his tenure as GM. He may retire after this contract. Who knows?

    Are you saying the Mets could make the playoffs with another GM? Which one and why would that person be a better choice?

    Then he's been a failure.

    SA's job is to win baseball games, he's been an epic failure so far.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    Equity on SNY keeps rising and the Wilpons take advantage by shifting debt to it and paying themselves cash dividends.
    You know this...how?
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Then he's been a failure.

    SA's job is to win baseball games, he's been an epic failure so far.
    If he doesn't make the playoffs in 2015, I agree.

    If they come very close in 2014, that I think that is successful because we should only get better.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Then he's been a failure.

    SA's job is to win baseball games, he's been an epic failure so far.
    If that's your jive, then stick with it, I guess. And, Frank Cashen was an abject failure as Mets GM from 1980 through 1983, right? I wonder what you would have been saying in 1983 -- his 4th year as GM -- when the Mets lost 94 games -- IN HIS 4TH YEAR?

    Reverse the clock, what would you have written then?
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    If that's your jive, then stick with it, I guess. And, Frank Cashen was an abject failure as Mets GM from 1980 through 1983, right? I wonder what you would have been saying in 1983 -- his 4th year as GM -- when the Mets lost 94 games -- IN HIS 4TH YEAR?

    Reverse the clock, what would you have written then?
    To expect the same thing to happen in 2016 is wishful thinking imo. Sure it could happen, but I think it needs to happen sooner than that. We will have the pieces in 2015 to compete.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Then he's been a failure.

    SA's job is to win baseball games, he's been an epic failure so far.
    LOL how? By trading away two aging players for two top 10 prospects and a third very good pitching propsect?

    The Reyes situation could be used against him, but he probably
    wasn't told by the Wilpons not to sign him until free agency started.

    To say Sandy has been a huge failure for not making the postseason with the group of major leaguers he has been given is just silly.
    Last edited by MetsFanatic19; 12-26-2012 at 05:25 PM.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    LOL how? By trading away two aging players for two top 10 prospects and a third dry good pitching propsect?

    The Reyes situation could be used against him, but he probably
    wasn't told by the Wilpons not to sign him until free agency started.

    To say Sandy has been a huge failure for not making the postseason with the group of major leaguers he has been given is just silly.

    He's not even tried to win. He's failed, we've wasted three seasons and in exchange we've got 3 prospects.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetsFanatic19 View Post
    LOL how? By trading away two aging players for two top 10 prospects and a third dry good pitching propsect?

    The Reyes situation could be used against him, but he probably
    wasn't told by the Wilpons not to sign him until free agency started.

    To say Sandy has been a huge failure for not making the postseason with the group of major leaguers he has been given is just silly.
    Agreed.

    Reyes is the main hit to his reputation as a Mets GM.

    If his boss didn't allow him to trade Reyes though should the blame really go to Sandy?

    Or if SA was lied to and told he would be given the money to resign Reyes does that really fall on SA's lap?

    No one will know for sure if Reyes was SA's decision or the Wilpons. I think its pretty safe to say though that with the value SA was able to get for Beltran and Dickey that he would have traded Reyes had he known he wouldn't be able to resign him. That is if he was even aloud to trade him.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    If that's your jive, then stick with it, I guess. And, Frank Cashen was an abject failure as Mets GM from 1980 through 1983, right? I wonder what you would have been saying in 1983 -- his 4th year as GM -- when the Mets lost 94 games -- IN HIS 4TH YEAR?

    Reverse the clock, what would you have written then?

    Oh please, not the Frank Cashen defense.


  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    He's not even tried to win. He's failed, we've wasted three seasons and in exchange we've got 3 prospects.
    3 top prospects, huge payroll relief, and further development of the farm system. Not bad in 3 years.

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