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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    I make Bill Moyers spot on! The NRA should STFU about pointing fingers of blame anywhere else. Of the many evil, extreme right wing organizations in the US, the NRA is by far the most evil, dangerous, powerful and appalling. Their only interests are to further the sales and increase the profits of merchants of death and destruction, while at the same time 'buying' politicians to push their ultra conservative agenda.

    The NRA bears a major responsibility for fostering, creating, and maintaining over many decades today's unbelievably ****ed up state of the country as far as weapons of mass death are concerned, what I like to call macho kill toys.

    The fact that politicians have been totally complicit in the NRA's rise to power and influence is a national disgrace on a par with the current non-functioning Congress. What's the common factor? Extreme loony, ultra right wing, conservative Teabaggers, whose agenda is to try and drag the country backwards, back to a time when the people who run the NRA - white, middle aged and old white men - also ran everything else. They still can't get over their loss of complete power and control over the country.
    it's not the NRAs fault this little psychopath went ona killing spree. stop blaming the people that make legal products and start blaming the ****ed up people who use them to hurt people. i'm so sick of everyone hiding behind crutches in this country, blaming everyone but the people that are responsible. face it, people can be bad and do bad things. its there fault, we need look no further when it comes to blaming someone. who's at fault? the monster who took the lives of innocnet kids and teachers
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  2. #62
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    I am an NRA supporter, but as always, when asking a conservative group of people a question, it seems they pick the stupidest one.

    Look, there is no way that video games, violence in movies, movies that tell kids its cool to take their own life, and many other things have had an impact. But an even stronger blame needs to be put on the parents of today, who coddle their children, and seemingly take less and less of an interest in their lives. As recently as a few years ago, I was onboard with, "it was easier to get guns 30 years ago, so why change the laws?", but its obvious that with the changing of the discipline and structure of our youth, must also come the changing of what we allow them to be around. The people under 30 are not like they were years ago, when personal responsibility, and upbringing, were simply stronger. If we need to take away assault rifles, and other guns that can be used quickly to get off 50 rounds, so be it.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    it's not the NRAs fault this little psychopath went ona killing spree. stop blaming the people that make legal products and start blaming the ****ed up people who use them to hurt people. i'm so sick of everyone hiding behind crutches in this country, blaming everyone but the people that are responsible. face it, people can be bad and do bad things. its there fault, we need look no further when it comes to blaming someone. who's at fault? the monster who took the lives of innocnet kids and teachers
    I agree 100000%. But isn't it alarming that this just keeps happening more and more? Personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past, which is why, unfortunately, protecting the population from what it produces might be necessary.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinstripe power View Post
    it's not the NRAs fault this little psychopath went ona killing spree. stop blaming the people that make legal products and start blaming the ****ed up people who use them to hurt people. i'm so sick of everyone hiding behind crutches in this country, blaming everyone but the people that are responsible. face it, people can be bad and do bad things. its there fault, we need look no further when it comes to blaming someone. who's at fault? the monster who took the lives of innocnet kids and teachers
    You simply refuse to see the obvious. The NRA is totally, utterly, completely complicit for having created the circumstances that enable deranged psychos like this one and all the others to do their thing, without having to go to any great effort to obtain their chosen means of destruction. They are, in plain language, accessories to mass murder.

    There will always be bad people in every society who will want, or try, to do bad things. There are no measures that will stop an occasional individual psycho, not more guns, no guns, or the best mental health care system imaginable. What society can and should do, is to make it as hard as possible for psychos or anyone else (which means including the entire population,) to get hold of the means of destruction - not to make it ridiculously easy, as is the case in the US today. Hence, sadly, this is another glorious area in which the US leads the world - not in occasional, but in regularly recurring , gross acts of random, psychotic, insane violence leading to multiple homicides.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I am an NRA supporter, but as always, when asking a conservative group of people a question, it seems they pick the stupidest one.

    Look, there is no way that video games, violence in movies, movies that tell kids its cool to take their own life, and many other things have had an impact. But an even stronger blame needs to be put on the parents of today, who coddle their children, and seemingly take less and less of an interest in their lives. As recently as a few years ago, I was onboard with, "it was easier to get guns 30 years ago, so why change the laws?", but its obvious that with the changing of the discipline and structure of our youth, must also come the changing of what we allow them to be around. The people under 30 are not like they were years ago, when personal responsibility, and upbringing, were simply stronger. If we need to take away assault rifles, and other guns that can be used quickly to get off 50 rounds, so be it.
    I consider myself a general supporter of guns but that stupidest one is the person that the NRA has chosen to represent themselves. Its not as though the media chose him out of the blue.

    As to the blame, I think we agree that the shooter deserves the bulk (maybe 98-99%) of the blame and the mother deserves the other bit for not securing her gun well enough with a wackjob in the house.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I consider myself a general supporter of guns but that stupidest one is the person that the NRA has chosen to represent themselves. Its not as though the media chose him out of the blue.

    As to the blame, I think we agree that the shooter deserves the bulk (maybe 98-99%) of the blame and the mother deserves the other bit for not securing her gun well enough with a wackjob in the house.
    Well, you and the previous poster, and maybe a few others will agree on where you put the 'blame'. A great many others, including me, would spread the 'blame' and 'responsibility' for this tragedy a lot wider than you gun apologists are prepared to do. Heaven forbid that anyone should find anything wrong with the holy macho gun culture fostered by the NRA (amongst others,) or the national addiction to, glorification of, and obsession with, violence; or the national paranoia about all those bad guys lining up to break into your homes; or the lack of proper care available to the oh so many youngsters who are growing up with ****ed up minds......but no, it was only the psycho and his batshit insane, prepper, gun nut mother, nothing to do with guns either.....ok, nothing to see here, time to move on.....

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    Well, you and the previous poster, and maybe a few others will agree on where you put the 'blame'. A great many others, including me, would spread the 'blame' and 'responsibility' for this tragedy a lot wider than you gun apologists are prepared to do. Heaven forbid that anyone should find anything wrong with the holy macho gun culture fostered by the NRA (amongst others,) or the national addiction to, glorification of, and obsession with, violence; or the national paranoia about all those bad guys lining up to break into your homes; or the lack of proper care available to the oh so many youngsters who are growing up with ****ed up minds......but no, it was only the psycho and his batshit insane, prepper, gun nut mother, nothing to do with guns either.....ok, nothing to see here, time to move on.....
    Holy overreaction, Batman!

    The blame does fall to the killer and some to his mother. I'm sorry but these people who want to blame culture in some way, shape, or form have to explain why 99.999% of society manages to carry on in a normal fashion while being exposed to the same violence and culture as those who commit the horrible atrocities.

    I absolutely advocate for additional funding for mental health screening and treatment. I also advocate for limits to the type of firearms that people can purchase. I believe that personal ownership of guns should be limited to protection and hunting, which means that there is no need for a large capacity firearm to be available to anyone who isn't a police officer or soldier.

    This is not at all the time to move on. It's the time to educate ourselves about what guns do, how to deal with mental health problems, and to remember who it was that killed those people and that they bear the brunt of the blame and not a hunk of metal.
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  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Holy overreaction, Batman!

    The blame does fall to the killer and some to his mother. I'm sorry but these people who want to blame culture in some way, shape, or form have to explain why 99.999% of society manages to carry on in a normal fashion while being exposed to the same violence and culture as those who commit the horrible atrocities.

    I absolutely advocate for additional funding for mental health screening and treatment. I also advocate for limits to the type of firearms that people can purchase. I believe that personal ownership of guns should be limited to protection and hunting, which means that there is no need for a large capacity firearm to be available to anyone who isn't a police officer or soldier.

    This is not at all the time to move on. It's the time to educate ourselves about what guns do, how to deal with mental health problems, and to remember who it was that killed those people and that they bear the brunt of the blame and not a hunk of metal.
    I'm with you entirely on your second paragraph - for starters! My final comment about moving on was, of course, intended as sarcasm.

    It is my contention (and not mine alone, so I"m not at all convinced that I"m overreacting, Robin,) that as long as that 0.001% continues to be able to easily commit the kind of atrocities that we have sadly become accustomed to, the fact that the other 99.9% are not running around committing mass murders is not of itself any sign of a healthy or sane society. The 'guns don't kill, people do' has really become the last, feeble, yet constantly repeated excuse of gun apologists. A ****ing monkey with a gun can kill you - I guess then it's also the monkey's fault? GUNS kill, that's what they were invented for!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    I consider myself a general supporter of guns but that stupidest one is the person that the NRA has chosen to represent themselves. Its not as though the media chose him out of the blue.

    As to the blame, I think we agree that the shooter deserves the bulk (maybe 98-99%) of the blame and the mother deserves the other bit for not securing her gun well enough with a wackjob in the house.
    oh, they constantly shoot themselves in the foot (no pun intended) with who they ask to represent them.

    It's the shooters fault, he did it. But sure, how did his mother not understand her son was a looney, and allow him access to those weapons? I am becoming of the opinion that the screening process must be much harder, and certain guns just don't need to see society.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  10. #70
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    Has this guy actually been found to be mentally ill, or are we just casually disparaging the mentally ill because it's easy?
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I agree 100000%. But isn't it alarming that this just keeps happening more and more? Personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past, which is why, unfortunately, protecting the population from what it produces might be necessary.
    it's alarming, but these people that do things like that don't simply do it because they can. take away guns, they will ge tthem illegaly or try some other method. people can scream gusn all they want, but the problem is that by blaming everything on somehting other than the person responsible, those people no loinger fell responsible. its said that instead of fixing the problem, the solution would be basically putting a bandade a major laceration
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmsterNat View Post
    Well, you and the previous poster, and maybe a few others will agree on where you put the 'blame'. A great many others, including me, would spread the 'blame' and 'responsibility' for this tragedy a lot wider than you gun apologists are prepared to do. Heaven forbid that anyone should find anything wrong with the holy macho gun culture fostered by the NRA (amongst others,) or the national addiction to, glorification of, and obsession with, violence; or the national paranoia about all those bad guys lining up to break into your homes; or the lack of proper care available to the oh so many youngsters who are growing up with ****ed up minds......but no, it was only the psycho and his batshit insane, prepper, gun nut mother, nothing to do with guns either.....ok, nothing to see here, time to move on.....
    gun apolgist? i don't own one, don't want one and think they are exteremly dangerous. if it accidently went off, thats a different story. this kid went in knowing he would do this and fired it. the gun did not fire itself, so how can we blame the gun and its manufactor that this kid used it inappropriately. we don';t blame care companies when someone runs sombody else over. its the same principal. by law we can carry guns, attack the people who abuse that law, not the law itself.

    this isn't even about guns, its about the major problem in this country of blame. no one ever seems to be respsonsible for their actions, there's always something greated behind it. it can never be some guy is a terrible person or ****ed in the head. no it has to be something greater, no one is responisible for anything they do because they were influenced into it. thatgs compelte bull. that ****ing lunatic with the gun was 100% at fault here, end of story


    spread the balm all you want, you are wrong. the blame rest squarely on the shoulders of the kid who did this
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  13. #73
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    I'm an NRA supporter, but come on...what's next? Blaming violent movies/tv shows and get rid of them too? Ridiculous.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by natepro View Post
    Has this guy actually been found to be mentally ill, or are we just casually disparaging the mentally ill because it's easy?
    I don't know for sure and haven't heard any reports about that. But I think its a safe assumption that someone who goes into a school and shoots 26 people is mentally ill. Although I will say he showed some signs of sanity in taking himself out afterwards.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooMutch14 View Post
    I'm an NRA supporter, but come on...what's next? Blaming violent movies/tv shows and get rid of them too? Ridiculous.
    I would really like to see NRA members and supporters tell Wayne that he is a terrible representative of them and their rights. The guy makes legitimate gun owners, and I know quite a few, look like they are insane. People that I know who support gun rights and are members of the NRA, I would suggest that they move their dollars to other groups that defend their rights and don't make them look like idiots. There are even a few liberal groups out there that do advocacy for gun rights.
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