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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamraMaan View Post
    But I see Montero as a DH who backs up the starting catcher, Zunino. I think with the bat they bring to the table in the future, Zunino maybe catches 120-130 games, and Montero picks up the slack. This also puts Morales as the primary 1B if we keep him past this season, which I sincerely hope we do (and trade Smoak).
    This is just my opinion, but I feel that if the everyday DH is going to back up any defensive positon, catcher is the last one it should be.

    As it stands, if Jaso and Montero are the only catchers come opening day, I'll be disappointed. Firstly becuase Montero is a terrible catcher and secondly becuase either it means Jaso is riding bench while Montero catches, or they will both be starting with no catcher available on the bench.

    In recent history, the list of players who have successfully been known as DH's only, is pretty short. And the list of those who were actually worth it over their career is even shorter.

    Ortiz?
    Edgar?
    Frank Thomas?

    I just don't think it's wise we hope for Montero to be as good as he would have to be to justify being a DH only player (or even a DH mainly and a bad backup catcher).

  2. #122
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    Thats not what its about to me. We cant trade away a guy we expect to be a 3-5 hitter for another 3-5 hitter. We dont gain enough to warrant trading a 22 year old with the amount of potential he has.

    We need to add to the offense, not subtract then add. We can get a bat for the OF while still keeping Montero.

    It doesnt hurt having a DH only that can hit like he should. More bats > less bats, doesnt matter where they are. Its not like he is expensive or anything like that. Theres absolutely no need to trade him.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by jej View Post
    Thats not what its about to me. We cant trade away a guy we expect to be a 3-5 hitter for another 3-5 hitter. We dont gain enough to warrant trading a 22 year old with the amount of potential he has.

    We need to add to the offense, not subtract then add. We can get a bat for the OF while still keeping Montero.

    It doesnt hurt having a DH only that can hit like he should. More bats > less bats, doesnt matter where they are. Its not like he is expensive or anything like that. Theres absolutely no need to trade him.
    Ok. How long would you be comfortable to give him then? We just gave him 135 games and he looked pretty bad- especially in Safeco.

    What if he's posting a sub .300 OBP come June or July? I'm just saying that for not being that good of a catcher and seeing how much he struggled in his first real MLB experience, I would be worried about his value vanishing overnight.

  4. #124
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    Word.

  5. #125
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    Sorry for just jumping in there. Just thought it was an interesting perspective.

  6. #126
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    He is 22 years old for gods sake. You want to give up on him already? Pretty typical mariner fan perspective.

    Dude mashed lefties, and hit well on the road. The talent is there. But we can't give up after a year and a half when he is still only 23. Be patient.

    Bill James projects an .800+ OPS for him next year, and I think there's a good shot he gets there.

    Most 22 year olds are in AA or AAA. He was in the bigs, thrown in the MOTO and asked to be the savior almost
    Last edited by jej; 12-27-2012 at 02:19 AM.

  7. #127
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    I don't think we should give up on Montero at all.

    I just thought baseball_is_lif had a good argument. Without him catching, the M's are counting on him to be a great hitter. But what if his 2013 turns out like 2012?

    Basically, what improvements do you expect from him this year? How much does he have to improve to satisfy your expectations?

  8. #128
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    Well if people expected him to get value from his defense, that's their fault. Everyone knew he probably wouldn't stay at catcher. He was always going to have to hit to have value. Nothing has changed.

    I expect steady improvements. I don't know exactly what, but he will improve. He is only 22. He has some time.

    You guys also have to realize that he is limited to being moved to a AL team, and that the fact that he is a DH hurts his value. It's not like we would be getting a big time outfielder straight up for him.

    It just doesn't make sense to trade him. We don't go anywhere offensively most likely. We need to add to him and Ackley and Seager, not take away from it.

    I mean, say he becomes a 120 wRC+ guy, and we trade him for 120 wRC+ OF. What was the point of that? If anything we lost value cause it wouldn't be straight up

  9. #129
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    I'm 100% with jej on this one. First he's too young to jump the gun and shoot ourselves in the leg by trading him. Second, his potential bat is waaaay too valuable to even think about trading him... we got him for his bat, not his defense. Third, why do people fear a young every-day DH??? Not that he will be, because I sincerely expect him to be the backup catcher as well, but I hate the idea that the DH should be some revolving door of old has-beens or injured players... both those groups are inherently not desirable. You wanna give me a young, healthy, great hitting DH and I'm ALL over it!! Fourth, I think his abilities as a catcher are already fine to be a backup, and from what I saw he should still get better. Albeit I think Zunino is unquestionably our future starter at catcher. I mean how perfect can it get? Starting catchers need to take days off throughout the year, so if they can DH (because they have a good bat) its pretty cool. And hey, your starting DH can catch as well?? You mean they simply rotate with each other?? Both stay healthy and are always in the lineup, and currently young??? Seriously, how does someone find reason to complain with this? They both have what should be great bats!! In what are historically two of the least productive positions! This is like the best possible scenario!!!

    "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln

  10. #130
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    We trade Montero we will regret it. He's going to be special.
    I'm In.



  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iansnightout View Post
    We trade Montero we will regret it. He's going to be special.
    Go to work!

    Time for bed (for me)...

    "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt" - Abraham Lincoln

  12. #132
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    I'm with jej, CM and Ian on this. Can't trade from a weakness and expect to improve.

    And as far as the age talk goes..I've been learning all this new baseball jargon from a bunch of kids (I'm 47). Thanks for bringing me in to the 21st century. Happy Holiday everyone...now off to Peoria Sports complex for my son's baseball tournament.

  13. #133
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    Yeah it's seems pretty dumb that anyone wants to trade him already.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasun62 View Post
    I'm with jej, CM and Ian on this. Can't trade from a weakness and expect to improve.

    And as far as the age talk goes..I've been learning all this new baseball jargon from a bunch of kids (I'm 47). Thanks for bringing me in to the 21st century. Happy Holiday everyone...now off to Peoria Sports complex for my son's baseball tournament.
    No way? I didn't know you we're that old. I assumed you were my age.
    I'm In.



  15. #135
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    in the 2nd half montero had very good line drive and k rates, this is his age 23 year, i think a billy butler like projection is very feesible which makes now a bad time to deal him IMO.

    not to beat a dead horse, but id like to see a 2yr plan to develop him at 1b, this year he can be used as a 2nd catcher/DH, GMZ said recently morales is not suited for everyday 1b duties, i think if he stays in the long term plans a segway to DH fits well (he was primarily a DH last year). so montero can get spot starts at 1b this year as well.

    and since we dont have a 1b in the system and our difficulty signing one in FA I think we should look to montero as a 1b, not with the expectation he is going to win a GG (not that it has any credibility), but all along his bat is supposed to play well enough there, and even tho last year was a little disappointing, in no way was it enough to think he cant hit enough for 1b (especially for us).

    someone that has the potential/expectation to develop as our best hitter should not be developed as a DH he will lose too many ABs in Interleague and hurt the team, and im sorry if he can play a little catcher, he will do fine at 1b, fielding grounders will come w/ repetition and there are way less situations to think about playing 1b than at C, instinctually he should be at an advantage.

    obvious point is we have a top end C prospect on his way, and montero hit better when he was playing defense. i think a typical DH should be a guy in his 30s, who can come off the bench cold and be a consistent hitter, at the same time not put your team in a bind come IL. the only thing we sacrafice in developing montero at 1b is justin smoak.

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