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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It's only a necessary evil if the Sandy Wilpons follow through. They're real good at trading off expensive pieces. Let's see what happens when it is time for them to bring in expensive pieces.
    5 million is not that expensive in the realm of MLB.

    And the reality is that the Mets would still be a 4th place team with or without Dickey.

    And I hope they don't waste their money giving multi-year contracts to players on the wrong side of 30.

    This team still needs to build from within. And get 1-2 quality ball player, preferably an outfielder, via FA or a trade on the right side of 30.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  2. #17
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    Honestly if they Yankees could do this for someone like Granderson they would in a heart beat or they'd be dumb. It's a great move DESPITE the Wilpons

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    5 million is not that expensive in the realm of MLB.

    And the reality is that the Mets would still be a 4th place team with or without Dickey.

    And I hope they don't waste their money giving multi-year contracts to players on the wrong side of 30.

    This team still needs to build from within. And get 1-2 quality ball player, preferably an outfielder, via FA or a trade on the right side of 30.
    Yes, they still need to build from within. And get 1-2 quality ball players.

    My question is, assuming they ever attain those pieces, will they turn a strength into a weakness with the right expensive free agent signing to put them over the top and take them from contender to favorite?

    Do they put a team on the field that fans might be interested in or do they put a team on the field that is a powerhouse, a la 1986?
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Yes, they still need to build from within. And get 1-2 quality ball players.

    My question is, assuming they ever attain those pieces, will they turn a strength into a weakness with the right expensive free agent signing to put them over the top and take them from contender to favorite?

    Do they put a team on the field that fans might be interested in or do they put a team on the field that is a powerhouse, a la 1986?
    They were willing to trade their CY Young award winner to build for the future. It isn't the most popular decision, but it was very good move for the team for the future.

    You do realize that they are rebuilding, or are you one these type of fans that think that the Mets should spend foolishly on old veterans.


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  5. #20
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    RA Dickey's goodbye letter to Mets fans

    The best part about this is that we all KNOW that he means the words he chooses! This should make every one of us feel a personal connection, and you very rarely get that from professional athletes. Something I will cherish. Thank you Robert Allen Dickey!

  6. #21
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    :cry: I am going to miss R.A. very much.

  7. #22
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    RA Dickey's goodbye letter to Mets fans

    :cry: <3


    If You Ain't Huckin, You Ain't ****in

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoicSentry View Post
    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...sEnabled=false

    Damn the Wilpons for making this necessary...
    Robert Allen is a class act in everything he says and does. I'm sure that virtually every Mets fan returns the love and gratitude he sends our way.

    But don't blame the Wilpons for making this necessary. Blame R.A. himself. By honing his craft over the past three years, enabling him to win 20 games and a Cy Young Award, he increased his trade value to the point that a trade became almost inevitable. As emotional as his departure is, Alderson did the right thing to get the best he could for Dickey.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    They were willing to trade their CY Young award winner to build for the future. It isn't the most popular decision, but it was very good move for the team for the future.

    You do realize that they are rebuilding, or are you one these type of fans that think that the Mets should spend foolishly on old veterans.
    That's a logical fallacy Clay. You're assuming because they traded a player they were going to have to pay $25 mill to, they're now committed to rebuild.

    Maybe they are.

    Or maybe they just want to run a team on the cheap. You say trading RA Dickey was a very good move for the future. Maybe.

    Or maybe investing in one of the league's best pitchers who probably has at least 5 good seasons left would have been in their best interests for the future too. Maybe investing in 29-year-old shortstop who just won a batting title would have been in in their best interests for the future too.

    But they did let Reyes go so we have to work from there. If they are interested in building for the future, trading Dickey for the best catching prospect in all of baseball was a start.

    A start. Now what happens? Because to build a team, you have to do a hell of a lot more than just trade expensive pieces for affordable ones.

    I grant you, now is not the time to spend money, certainly not after parting company with Mr. Reyes last year. But hopefully in two or three years, it will be time to spend some money.

    Can you say without a doubt that the Wilpons will pony up the big bucks necessary to put this team over the top?

    I'm not so sure.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It's only a necessary evil if the Sandy Wilpons follow through. They're real good at trading off expensive pieces. Let's see what happens when it is time for them to bring in expensive pieces.
    Trading off expensive pieces??? Are you confusing Alderson and Wilpon with Jeffrey Loria? What expensive pieces are you talking about? Two months of Carlos Beltran? Angel Pagan? Dickey? (he hardly qualifies as an "expensive piece")

    It seems to me that getting Wheeler for Beltran, d'Arnaud and Syndergaard for Dickey, and now Cowgill for Marte, Alderson has proven his acumen as a GM, and since he is only Wilpon's puppet, Fred deserves some credit there too.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    That's a logical fallacy Clay. You're assuming because they traded a player they were going to have to pay $25 mill to, they're now committed to rebuild.

    Maybe they are.

    Or maybe they just want to run a team on the cheap. You say trading RA Dickey was a very good move for the future. Maybe.

    Or maybe investing in one of the league's best pitchers who probably has at least 5 good seasons left would have been in their best interests for the future too. Maybe investing in 29-year-old shortstop who just won a batting title would have been in in their best interests for the future too.

    But they did let Reyes go so we have to work from there. If they are interested in building for the future, trading Dickey for the best catching prospect in all of baseball was a start.

    A start. Now what happens? Because to build a team, you have to do a hell of a lot more than just trade expensive pieces for affordable ones.

    I grant you, now is not the time to spend money, certainly not after parting company with Mr. Reyes last year. But hopefully in two or three years, it will be time to spend some money.

    Can you say without a doubt that the Wilpons will pony up the big bucks necessary to put this team over the top?

    I'm not so sure
    .
    I'm not going to get into a discussion as to whether a 38 year old R.A. Dickey has at least 5 good seasons left, or 7, or 3. There's no way to know.

    And I'm not going to get into a discussion about Alderson's inability to forsee what a spendthrift Miami Marlins owner, with a new stadium to fill, might do to undercut his desire to retain Jose. That discussion has been played out too often already.

    But I will say that the Wilpons ponied up the big bucks in the past, when they needed to, and acquired Pedro, Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, K-Rod, and even the misguided deals they made with Ollie and Bay. If past history is the best indicator of future performance, there is absolutely no reason to think that they won't do it again, assuming the money and the players are there.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    That's a logical fallacy Clay. You're assuming because they traded a player they were going to have to pay $25 mill to, they're now committed to rebuild.

    Maybe they are.

    Or maybe they just want to run a team on the cheap. You say trading RA Dickey was a very good move for the future. Maybe.

    Or maybe investing in one of the league's best pitchers who probably has at least 5 good seasons left would have been in their best interests for the future too. Maybe investing in 29-year-old shortstop who just won a batting title would have been in in their best interests for the future too.

    But they did let Reyes go so we have to work from there. If they are interested in building for the future, trading Dickey for the best catching prospect in all of baseball was a start.

    A start. Now what happens? Because to build a team, you have to do a hell of a lot more than just trade expensive pieces for affordable ones.

    I grant you, now is not the time to spend money, certainly not after parting company with Mr. Reyes last year. But hopefully in two or three years, it will be time to spend some money.

    Can you say without a doubt that the Wilpons will pony up the big bucks necessary to put this team over the top?

    I'm not so sure.
    Nor I.

    Right now, I'm still disappointed about trading R.A. We just don't have anyone or combination of anyone that will equal the quality innings he threw. You never now how rookie pitchers will adjust to the bigs. Replacing a Cy Young pitcher is almost impossible. This trade MUST work out for us.....

    Plus, as demonstrated when we traded Guerra, Mulvey, Gomez and Humber for Johan, Gomez was supposed to be a solid CF, Guerra was a long range solid prospect as was Mulvey, but to a lesser degree and Humber was supposed to be near ML ready.

    As it turned out all have either been mostly insignificant or have had one or two moments in the sun.

    Yes, we have some nice pitching prospects, but we're lacking the "can't miss" ones. You know I'm talking about a Gooden or Strawberry or Harper, etc. An IMPACT prospect.

    Just remember when the "Big Three" were coming up - Paul Wilson, Bill Pulsipher and Jason Isringhausen. All three were highly tauted to be a force in the mid-90's, but injuries derailed Wilson & Pulsipher, but Izzy hung on to be a successful RP with Oakland and St. Louis.

    I'm happy that R.A. is in a position to win a WS.

    I remain skeptical, but hopeful about SA leading us to becoming relevant again.
    Last edited by Paulie6986; 12-23-2012 at 09:03 PM.

    Shea Stadium Scoreboard May 31, 1964



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    ua you're gone, but never forgotten, R.I.P.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I'm not going to get into a discussion as to whether a 38 year old R.A. Dickey has at least 5 good seasons left, or 7, or 3. There's no way to know.

    And I'm not going to get into a discussion about Alderson's inability to forsee what a spendthrift Miami Marlins owner, with a new stadium to fill, might do to undercut his desire to retain Jose. That discussion has been played out too often already.

    But I will say that the Wilpons ponied up the big bucks in the past, when they needed to, and acquired Pedro, Beltran, Delgado, Wagner, K-Rod, and even the misguided deals they made with Ollie and Bay. If past history is the best indicator of future performance, there is absolutely no reason to think that they won't do it again, assuming the money and the players are there.
    They ponied up the big bucks when they had Bernie Madoff underwriting fictitious 18-percent returns on their investments. Yes, they settled out of court with Irving Picard but those 18-percent returns are gone forever.

    It's a whole new ballgame.

    Doubtful they'll ever spend that kind of money again. To Clay's point, they don't have to. Hell, they shouldn't.

    But they will have to spend money at some point. I'm not sure they will. Certainly you can't point to the Bernie Madoff days as a proofpoint for the spending in the future.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    Trading off expensive pieces??? Are you confusing Alderson and Wilpon with Jeffrey Loria? What expensive pieces are you talking about? Two months of Carlos Beltran? Angel Pagan? Dickey? (he hardly qualifies as an "expensive piece")

    It seems to me that getting Wheeler for Beltran, d'Arnaud and Syndergaard for Dickey, and now Cowgill for Marte, Alderson has proven his acumen as a GM, and since he is only Wilpon's puppet, Fred deserves some credit there too.
    Dickey wasn't an expensive piece? Who on the Mets not named David Wright is making more than $12 million a year? No, he wasn't an expensive piece in 2013 but he would have been in 2014.

    They made sure to get something back before having to pay him.

    Sandy has done a good job in bringing in value and that's a good start. But if Ike Davis starts raking do you lock him up before he hits free agency? Or do you trade him off too?

    I'm seeing a pattern right now. With the exception of David Wright, every player who has excelled for this team has been let go. Everyone in here is assuming there's a rhyme to this reason and maybe there is.

    I'm just saying let's see how things develop before assuming the Wilpons with Alderson are going to build a team from bottom to top. To Sandy's credit, he's building a nice foundation. Now let's see what happens when it's time to add an expensive cherry on top of the ice cream sundae.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    That's a logical fallacy Clay. You're assuming because they traded a player they were going to have to pay $25 mill to, they're now committed to rebuild.

    Maybe they are.

    Or maybe they just want to run a team on the cheap. You say trading RA Dickey was a very good move for the future. Maybe.

    Or maybe investing in one of the league's best pitchers who probably has at least 5 good seasons left would have been in their best interests for the future too. Maybe investing in 29-year-old shortstop who just won a batting title would have been in in their best interests for the future too.

    But they did let Reyes go so we have to work from there. If they are interested in building for the future, trading Dickey for the best catching prospect in all of baseball was a start.

    A start. Now what happens? Because to build a team, you have to do a hell of a lot more than just trade expensive pieces for affordable ones.

    I grant you, now is not the time to spend money, certainly not after parting company with Mr. Reyes last year. But hopefully in two or three years, it will be time to spend some money.

    Can you say without a doubt that the Wilpons will pony up the big bucks necessary to put this team over the top?

    I'm not so sure.
    A start? Trading Beltran for Wheeler was the start. They traded a damn good outfielder for a potential TORP. As for Reyes, I have stated my case about the situation ad nauseum. And they didn't trade Dickey for just a catcher, they traded him for one of the best catching prospects, a potential TORP and a lottery ticket in Becerra. That is a great haul.

    This is the best farm system this franchise will have since 2003. Not only because of the talent they acquired but because of teaching the players to take professional at bats.

    But if you want to downplay it, by all means do so. Rebuilding takes time, and the question is, do you have the patience to see it through?

    The Wilpons have spent in the past, a little to carelessly in my opinion. They don't need to spend 140+ million to win, they need to go all in. And with the way they spent on the draft and on the international FA, I think they will again.

    The Mets have 3 potential TORP in Harvey, Wheeler and they didn't stopped there, they were persistent in acquiring Syndergaard. And that doesn't include the likes of the excellent arms they have in hign and low Single A ball.

    Or as Napoleon Hill once said, "Patience, persistence and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success."


    ďNinety percent Iíll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent Iíll probably waste.Ē
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

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