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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    After 4 losing seasons and no major free agents signed that cost them picks, the farm better be better. Then again the problem has been that in his two drafts the Mets have yet to draft a high impact guy, now obviously there can be a guy that developed into that, but that was the same issue with minaya's drafts or as it turned out to as of now. Harvey could be the one exception.
    It 2009 they signed K-Rod, and in 2010 they signed Bay. They both cost the Mets a 1st rounder.

    And I agree they haven't drafted an impact player, but then again both of their 1st rounders are 3-4 years away. Ike was considered a bust after his 1st season. As you know let the kids develop, they may surprise you.

    And Niese turned out pretty well, even for the most jaded fan.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Would you rather have 5 1st rounders (1 being a top 10) and 3 supplemental picks or 2 1st rounders in the top 15 and 2 supplemental picks?

    If the Mets didn't resign Ollie and if they didn't give away Wagner for 2 scrubs, they would have had just that.

    And how should it be better?
    I've criticized the Wagner move many many times. I agree that set our system back.

    I just don't agree with some of the draft picks he has made. IMO we've missed out on a lot of impact talent which is why I think it could be better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Piazza View Post
    But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful.

  3. #33
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    He's done a great job gathering us prospects. If he had his say with Reyes who knows - we might of gotten Myers or another touted pitcher, ect. He has not done a bad job given with what he has to work with.

  4. #34
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    Trading Reyes might have affected the market for Beltran, and if the Jays never got Reyes maybe the would have never wanted Dickey. I'm happy the way things turned out.

  5. #35
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    Didn't Sandy give Dickey the original contract extension that allowed the club to receive the young talent we got. He has to get some credit not only for what he got for Dickey but for taking that chance originally. It is hard as a life long Met fan to watch the team fall to the middle of the pack in spending but maybe Sandy is the perfect guy if that is what we need to do.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by metro $ View Post
    Didn't Sandy give Dickey the original contract extension that allowed the club to receive the young talent we got. He has to get some credit not only for what he got for Dickey but for taking that chance originally. It is hard as a life long Met fan to watch the team fall to the middle of the pack in spending but maybe Sandy is the perfect guy if that is what we need to do.
    agreed.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by metro $ View Post
    Didn't Sandy give Dickey the original contract extension that allowed the club to receive the young talent we got. He has to get some credit not only for what he got for Dickey but for taking that chance originally. It is hard as a life long Met fan to watch the team fall to the middle of the pack in spending but maybe Sandy is the perfect guy if that is what we need to do.
    Dude.

    Dickey wasn't eligible for free agency then. The only person Sandy was competing against was the arbitrator. It was a no brainer to extend him.

    The guy who is 50-percent responsible for the haul Dickey brought back is Omar Minaya.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Trading Reyes might have affected the market for Beltran, and if the Jays never got Reyes maybe the would have never wanted Dickey. I'm happy the way things turned out.
    What did the Zen Master say again?


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Dude.

    Dickey wasn't eligible for free agency then. The only person Sandy was competing against was the arbitrator. It was a no brainer to extend him.

    The guy who is 50-percent responsible for the haul Dickey brought back is Omar Minaya.
    Except Sandy gave Dickey a team friendly contract that made certain teams covet him.

    Minaya signed Dickey to a Minor League contract, he was smart enough to bring a journey man up to the majors. Dickey took it from there. RA made the most of probably his last opportunity. Who would ever thought that Omar's best free agent signing would have happened in his last season with the Mets and not his 1st with Beltran.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsnQueens7 View Post
    He's done a great job gathering us prospects. If he had his say with Reyes who knows - we might of gotten Myers or another touted pitcher, ect. He has not done a bad job given with what he has to work with.
    He hasn't done a bad job with the farm with what he had to work with. He has done a pretty mediocre job with the MLB team given what he had to work with. I see lots of complaints that he was left some big mess by Minaya, but I just don't see it. If we had just keep all of Omar's players, this still would have been a pretty good team last year. I was reminded of this recently browsing Clay Davenport's site, and seeing Wright, Reyes, Pagan and Beltran all in the top 15 in the NL last year in his equivalent runs stat. Making the same point with WAR:

    bWr fWr
    6.7 7.8 Wright
    4.0 4.8 Pagan
    2.8 4.5 Reyes
    3.6 3.6 Beltran
    1.9 2.1 Tejada
    1.2 1.8 Murphy
    0.7 1.6 Davis
    ======
    20.9 26.2 Position players

    bWr fWR
    5.6 4.6 Dickey
    3.2 2.4 Niese
    1.6 1.1 Harvey
    0.8 1.5 Gee
    0.1 1.1 Santana
    1.3 1.0 Parnell
    ======
    12.6 11.7 Pitchers


    If you just kept all that talent, and filled in the rest of the roster with replacement players, this wouldn't have been a playoff team, but it still would have been an at least average team. As a point of reference, to get to 88 wins, you need about 35 bWar or 46 fWAR from the entire team (they start with a very different definition of "replacement").

    So If an average to slightly above average GM had come in and built a decent low cost bullpen, maybe traded one of Murphy or Tejada for an equivalent outfield talent, and added one good staring pitcher (Kuroda would have been a nice addition after 2010), it's maybe a playoff team. And if you're only a little bit more ambitious, adding a guy like Yoenis Cepedas (3.1-3.5 WAR) might have made things even more interesting.

    And this is no great shocker; anyone could have told you 2 or 3 years ago that what we really needed was an outfielder, another good starting pitcher, and a catcher.

    So yes, Sandy took over a less than perfectly ideal situation. That's usually the case when GMs are fired. But neither the MLB roster or farm system were barren of talent by any stretch of the imagination (both were probably slightly above average), and it's not like it would have taken a herculean effort to turn things around in 2 years.
    Last edited by acerimusdux; 12-25-2012 at 08:59 AM.

  11. #41
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    All these big contracts that have come off over recent year, and THEY STILL won't spend a nickel...

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Except Sandy gave Dickey a team friendly contract that made certain teams covet him.

    Minaya signed Dickey to a Minor League contract, he was smart enough to bring a journey man up to the majors. Dickey took it from there. RA made the most of probably his last opportunity. Who would ever thought that Omar's best free agent signing would have happened in his last season with the Mets and not his 1st with Beltran.
    Always comes back to the Zen Master.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    It 2009 they signed K-Rod, and in 2010 they signed Bay. They both cost the Mets a 1st rounder.

    And I agree they haven't drafted an impact player, but then again both of their 1st rounders are 3-4 years away. Ike was considered a bust after his 1st season. As you know let the kids develop, they may surprise you.

    And Niese turned out pretty well, even for the most jaded fan.

    Yet, you wanted to trade Niese...

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    All these big contracts that have come off over recent year, and THEY STILL won't spend a nickel...
    You simply don't get it. Just because we cut money does not mean we should spend that money elsewhere just to spend it. They already said they are willing to spend next offseason if the right players present themselves. There are no players worth spending on, especially in a season where we will have young players showing what they can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    Yet, you wanted to trade Niese...
    Once again, you don't get it. I wanted to trade Niese as well but under the right circumstance, and I'm assuming he did too. We didn't want to trade Niese because he isn't a good pitcher. He is. However, we know Sandy Alderson could pull off a great return for Niese if a team showed enough interest. We supported a Niese trade if the right deal presented himself. I tried explaining this to you before but you fail to understand each time I try.

    Let's exaggerate to try and prove the point.

    If the Angels offered up Trout for Niese, you trade Niese. This would never happen, but if a team overpays for Niese, we accept the deal.


    If You Ain't Huckin, You Ain't ****in

  15. #45
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    I was against trading Niese too. Trading him is the opposite of how you rebuild.

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