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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
    First off I'm not sure how much stock I can put into an article where the writer misuses "Scathing" right off the bat, if it was meant tongue in cheek well it failed to present itself in that light...that said.....
    You didn't get that the title was bait, to hook potential readers, and not really serious? His very first words are "Ha, Ha, Gotcha!"

    You should decide how much stock to put in an article by judging how well the writer makes and supports his points. I think this guy did a good job in an objective way.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    I think the following article represents a very realistic assessment of Alderson's 2 year tenure as the Mets GM. It specifies and expands on his best and worst moves quite objectively.

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/12...comment-327307

    It should be required reading for McFly, Coupon, and all the detractors who call Sandy a puppet and demean all he has tried to do. I'd like to hear from those who disagree with this assessment, as well as those who think it is spot on.
    I quit taking the article seriously when I got to this one:

    # 5 Keeping the Mets competitive while rebuilding

    Unfortunately, the major league roster Alderson inherited was extremely shallow in terms of depth – but at the same time featured a totally bloated payroll. With ownership struggling to avoid a bankruptcy, the off-season budgets in 2011 and 2012 were minuscule. Instead of rushing the few good upper level prospects into action (like the previous administration did towards the end of their tenure), Alderson kept the big picture in mind and instead signed several very useful players such as Chris Capuano, Scott Hairston (twice), Chris Young (twice), Ronny Cedeno, Jason Isringhausen, Tim Byrdak (twice) or Jon Rauch for less money overall than one season of Francisco Rodriguez to fill out the roster short-term.


    He's kept the roster competitive while rebuilding?

    He added little of use to the roster. Most of the overperforming pieces were Omar's. One player mentioned here did well, six were adequate - these were mostly subs or part-timers of one kind or another, the highest priced and most important (Francisco) was horrendous.

    Probably Alderson's most important job here is to present a figure of authority so fans don't jump ship while the Wilpons skim a vast amount of revenue from the team. Somehow he's sold the rebuilding concept to a lot of people. In his third year he's made two actual trades for prospects. We'll see how they work. The drafts don't look very good so far. Most of the other accomplishments that actually worked were no-brainers.

    Dickey puts up a great 2010, so he gives him a 2 year contract? Anyone on this board would have done that.

    They signed K-Rod to an absurdly backloaded contract the day before the Madoff case broke. Obviously they were expecting to get plenty of interest on the amount they were backloading. It didn't work out that way. Anyone on this board could have and would have done a salary dump of that contract.

    Slowing down the pace of development? The young guys who got the most playing time last year (Kirk, Valdespin) had correctable flaws and needed more seasoning.

    Items #8 through #10 range from debatable to silly.

    Alderson's in his third year now and they had a rough time coming up with 10 positive things he's done. I guess that says it all.

  3. #18
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    Aha! A scathing review of "A Scathing Review" by Coupon. What a surprise.
    Former B'klyn Dodger fan. Mets Maniac since 1962.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I quit taking the article seriously when I got to this one:

    # 5 Keeping the Mets competitive while rebuilding

    Unfortunately, the major league roster Alderson inherited was extremely shallow in terms of depth – but at the same time featured a totally bloated payroll. With ownership struggling to avoid a bankruptcy, the off-season budgets in 2011 and 2012 were minuscule. Instead of rushing the few good upper level prospects into action (like the previous administration did towards the end of their tenure), Alderson kept the big picture in mind and instead signed several very useful players such as Chris Capuano, Scott Hairston (twice), Chris Young (twice), Ronny Cedeno, Jason Isringhausen, Tim Byrdak (twice) or Jon Rauch for less money overall than one season of Francisco Rodriguez to fill out the roster short-term.


    He's kept the roster competitive while rebuilding?

    He added little of use to the roster. Most of the overperforming pieces were Omar's. One player mentioned here did well, six were adequate - these were mostly subs or part-timers of one kind or another, the highest priced and most important (Francisco) was horrendous.

    Probably Alderson's most important job here is to present a figure of authority so fans don't jump ship while the Wilpons skim a vast amount of revenue from the team. Somehow he's sold the rebuilding concept to a lot of people. In his third year he's made two actual trades for prospects. We'll see how they work. The drafts don't look very good so far. Most of the other accomplishments that actually worked were no-brainers.

    Dickey puts up a great 2010, so he gives him a 2 year contract? Anyone on this board would have done that.

    They signed K-Rod to an absurdly backloaded contract the day before the Madoff case broke. Obviously they were expecting to get plenty of interest on the amount they were backloading. It didn't work out that way. Anyone on this board could have and would have done a salary dump of that contract.

    Slowing down the pace of development? The young guys who got the most playing time last year (Kirk, Valdespin) had correctable flaws and needed more seasoning.

    Items #8 through #10 range from debatable to silly.

    Alderson's in his third year now and they had a rough time coming up with 10 positive things he's done. I guess that says it all.
    I agree with most of your post except about slowing the pace of development and #8-#10. If you've paid a lot of attention to the minors for the Mets, you would know those things are true. Hard to say Kirk and Valdespin were really rushed when both were 24 years old and spent several years in the system.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbummin View Post
    Aha! A scathing review of "A Scathing Review" by Coupon. What a surprise.
    He's right on some points, but so is the blogger. Sandy definitely hasn't been perfect, and I still think the drafting could be better.
    Last edited by YoungStuna; 12-23-2012 at 11:40 PM.

  6. #21
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    I cannot recite any source and it is only a rumor, but one I got from a sports writer from the WSJ, but Alderson was forced on the Mets by Bud Selig to protect MLB's investment after several owners were furious with Selig for allowing the Mets to fall into such financial disarry. These owners were against Selig lending the Wilpons any money and would have preferred that the team be sold.

    Alderson was told that if he accepted the job with the Mets and straightened them out he would be given very serious consideration to be named Commissioner when Selig retired. .

  7. #22
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    Outside of the two big deals for Beltran and Dickey I cannot really say Alderson has done a great, or even good job.

    I'll give him a pass on the Pagan trade because at the time myself and many of us who bash it today considered it a good trade at the time. Obvioulsy hindsight tells us differently but that's baseball.

    Not trading Reyes was a huge mistake. I understand maybe it wasn't his call but I don't know that for sure. Not trading Reyes when he had high value and when Sandy knew the Mets couldn't offer a slamdunk contract was a huge mistake that sets this franchise back a year or two IMO.

    Signing relievers such as Jon Rauch or Francisco Cordero last offseason rather than spending that money on a young player such as Cespedes was a huge mistake IMO. Those moves were made to give the Mets a chance at finishing around 80 wins, not make a push for the playoffs. If that's the case I'd rather just see that money go towards a long termed player.

    Not unloading some players at the deadline this year was foolish. A team would have given up a solid C to C+ spec(s) most likely to get someone like Scott Hairston and maybe Jon Rauch as well.

    Despite what some say I do not believe he has drafted well at all, especially in 2012. The Mets system has a history of lacking impact players and Sandy has done nothing to address this issue. The Mets need to groom impact players as it is becoming harder and more expensive to get them in the free agent market.

    And finally not addressing some of our holes going into next year that could have been filled cheaply such as defense, bullpen help, and depth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Piazza View Post
    But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY Sports Fan View Post
    I cannot recite any source and it is only a rumor, but one I got from a sports writer from the WSJ, but Alderson was forced on the Mets by Bud Selig to protect MLB's investment after several owners were furious with Selig for allowing the Mets to fall into such financial disarry. These owners were against Selig lending the Wilpons any money and would have preferred that the team be sold.

    Alderson was told that if he accepted the job with the Mets and straightened them out he would be given very serious consideration to be named Commissioner when Selig retired. .
    It was Brian Costa, and it was his interpretation of the situation.

    Alderson interviewed for the job. Along with 4 other candidates.

    There is no door open in the Watergate Hotel.


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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5+7=DYNASTY!!! View Post
    Outside of the two big deals for Beltran and Dickey I cannot really say Alderson has done a great, or even good job.

    I'll give him a pass on the Pagan trade because at the time myself and many of us who bash it today considered it a good trade at the time. Obvioulsy hindsight tells us differently but that's baseball.

    Not trading Reyes was a huge mistake. I understand maybe it wasn't his call but I don't know that for sure. Not trading Reyes when he had high value and when Sandy knew the Mets couldn't offer a slamdunk contract was a huge mistake that sets this franchise back a year or two IMO.

    Signing relievers such as Jon Rauch or Francisco Cordero last offseason rather than spending that money on a young player such as Cespedes was a huge mistake IMO. Those moves were made to give the Mets a chance at finishing around 80 wins, not make a push for the playoffs. If that's the case I'd rather just see that money go towards a long termed player.

    Not unloading some players at the deadline this year was foolish. A team would have given up a solid C to C+ spec(s) most likely to get someone like Scott Hairston and maybe Jon Rauch as well.

    Despite what some say I do not believe he has drafted well at all, especially in 2012. The Mets system has a history of lacking impact players and Sandy has done nothing to address this issue. The Mets need to groom impact players as it is becoming harder and more expensive to get them in the free agent market.

    And finally not addressing some of our holes going into next year that could have been filled cheaply such as defense, bullpen help, and depth.
    Is the farm system better?

    For the record the Mets are going to suck next year.


    “Ninety percent I’ll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I’ll probably waste.”
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  10. #25
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    A Scathing Review Of Sandy Alderson

    After 4 losing seasons and no major free agents signed that cost them picks, the farm better be better. Then again the problem has been that in his two drafts the Mets have yet to draft a high impact guy, now obviously there can be a guy that developed into that, but that was the same issue with minaya's drafts or as it turned out to as of now. Harvey could be the one exception.

  11. #26
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    They still haven't invested a nickel in the team. No running away from that, they have back loaded deals and deferred money, which will negatively impact the team down the line. Smoke and mirrors, keep payroll low every year, keep making excuses for not spending.

  12. #27
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Mcfly View Post
    They still haven't invested a nickel in the team. No running away from that, they have back loaded deals and deferred money, which will negatively impact the team down the line. Smoke and mirrors, keep payroll low every year, keep making excuses for not spending.
    What you say is true but that has little to do with Alderson. I think he has done a good job with the resources that he has had. Of course he has lied about the financial aspect of the Wilpons, but then again he has to. They employ him to do such things. Getting the prospects he got for Beltran and Dickey were really good deals. Yes, we still need to wait and see what they turn into but he got the most "Value" he could for them and that should be applauded.

    IMO Sandy made two major mistakes.

    1) Most likely he could have gotten more value in terms of prospects when he traded K-Rod. He seemed to just hop onto a deal with the first team that would take on K-Rods contract without shopping around. Again the Wilpons main goal was to rid themselves of the contract so you can't put all that blame on Sandy. Orders are orders.

    2) Not Trading Reyes. This also has the Wilpon stench all over it. I truly feel that if SA had known he would not be given the resources to extend Reyes's contract he would have traded him. Unless told otherwise by the Wilpon's not to trade him.

    When the Mets made the decision to not trade Reyes and let him walk it set the team back years. If you look at what we got for Dickey and Beltran and factor in how valuable a shortstop of Reyes's caliber is, the most likely return could have been incredible. The Rays and Redsox were both in contention that year and they both could have used a player like Reyes. Now I have no idea what we could have gotten in return from either of them but it isn't out of the question that we could have gotten a top flight outfield or pitching prospect and wouldn't be in the situation we are in today.


    As far as the Pagan trade:

    I was never a fan of the trade as I really liked Pagan. However I can't really fault Alderson for this deal. All the experts loved this trade for the Mets. I am not an expert so I kinda have to roll with what I hear and it appeared most thought this trade was a no brainer for the Mets. Remember Pagans offense and defense was both terrible the year prior.

    The trade made sense at the time but it just simply did not workout. Pagan returned to form and Torres and Ramirez had terrible years. Even though this falls on Sandy he should get a pass for this stinker.

    When evaluating Alderson everyone must remember that certain things are out of his control. I am sure he would go out and sign Bourne if he was given the resources. I am sure he would also have resigned Reyes if given the resources or traded him if given the okay.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  13. #28
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    This is the thing, when Omar was GM, no-one made excused for his bad trades. SA has you all making excuses for him. Certain things were out of control for Omar, he wasn't allowed to ever improve the team after the season started. He had $$$ to spend on aging vets, but nothing on the draft, because the Coupons were only interested in winning short-term to get ****** field built.

    No-one wants to evaluate SA fairly. Credit for successes, criticism for fails. That's how I roll.

    When SA was appointed GM of this team, many fell in love with him, and they're still in love with him.

    SA has pulled off two good trades, but he failed with Reyes and his biggest trade for MLB players was a complete bust, as was his biggest FA signing. His two teams so far are under .500, with another one on the way. Making two good trades for prospects is not a great resume IMO.

    I'm not giving him a pass for the Pagan trade either.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Is the farm system better?

    For the record the Mets are going to suck next year.
    Well as Sick already stated with all the poor records, no free agent signings, and two major trades, how could the farm system not be better? IMO it should be even better than it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Piazza View Post
    But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5+7=DYNASTY!!! View Post
    Well as Sick already stated with all the poor records, no free agent signings, and two major trades, how could the farm system not be better? IMO it should be even better than it is.
    Would you rather have 5 1st rounders (1 being a top 10) and 3 supplemental picks or 2 1st rounders in the top 15 and 2 supplemental picks?

    If the Mets didn't resign Ollie and if they didn't give away Wagner for 2 scrubs, they would have had just that.

    And how should it be better?


    “Ninety percent I’ll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I’ll probably waste.”
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

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