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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Il Mostro View Post
    The only real issue I have with SA is the Reyes fiasco. He completely screwed the pooch on that. I understand not making any major FA moves now and can deal with it -- in 2014 we will have a much better idea of how the pieces fit and can address trades and FA acquisitions based on specific needs. Not to mention, quality FA's will be much more willing to join an up and coming team that is on the cusp of contending.
    My exact thoughts.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    I disagree. I think, they were well on their way prior to the trade. The Dickey trade just made them roughly a top 10 farm. They are driven by their excellent pitching prospects and that's with losing Harvey.

    I wasn't implying that you were a jaded fan, and for that I'm sorry.
    Well, I guess I liked the farm a little more than most back in 2010, and maybe I like that lower level piching a little less than most now. In general, I think our lower level pitching tends to get over-rated and our bats under-rated.

    In 2010, Omar's last year, the system graduated Davis, Niese, Tejada, and Thole. Since then, it has also graduated Harvey, Gee, Mejia, Duda, Nieuwenhuis, Valdespin, Turner, and Fernando

    It's also had some hitting prospects whose stock has fallen. Havens still looked pretty intriguing then, though he had missed time with injury. Ratliff looked like he might be breaking out, and he had not yet had the career ending injury. Flores that offseason was ranked the #10 prospect in the FSL, Aderlin the #9 prospect in the Appy, Puello #13 in the SAL, and Vaughn #3 and Ceciliani #11 in the NYPL.

    Some of the names from 2010-2011 will look disappointing now, but some on this year's list will look disappointing 2 years from now. But on the whole, I think the only really high ceiling talent added in the last 2 years seems to have been in the two trades. I think the pitching development seems to have improved some, but the position players seem to have stagnated some.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by acerimusdux View Post
    Well, I guess I liked the farm a little more than most back in 2010, and maybe I like that lower level piching a little less than most now. In general, I think our lower level pitching tends to get over-rated and our bats under-rated.

    In 2010, Omar's last year, the system graduated Davis, Niese, Tejada, and Thole. Since then, it has also graduated Harvey, Gee, Mejia, Duda, Nieuwenhuis, Valdespin, Turner, and Fernando

    It's also had some hitting prospects whose stock has fallen. Havens still looked pretty intriguing then, though he had missed time with injury. Ratliff looked like he might be breaking out, and he had not yet had the career ending injury. Flores that offseason was ranked the #10 prospect in the FSL, Aderlin the #9 prospect in the Appy, Puello #13 in the SAL, and Vaughn #3 and Ceciliani #11 in the NYPL.

    Some of the names from 2010-2011 will look disappointing now, but some on this year's list will look disappointing 2 years from now. But on the whole, I think the only really high ceiling talent added in the last 2 years seems to have been in the two trades. I think the pitching development seems to have improved some, but the position players seem to have stagnated some.
    You make fair point about our positional players but imo our farm is quite a bit better then it was even without the 2 trades. Fulmer, Tapia, Montero, Mazzoni all look like they can be very good.

    I will give you that our positional players haven't done anything much but Sandy also traded Marte (who was once considered one of our top prospects) who prob will never make it to the ML's for a young outfielder who should be a pretty important part of the team.

    The main thing here is that more money needs to be spent on the Draft as well as International Free Agency. Especially on positional players.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  4. #64
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    Tapia was acquired by Omar.

  5. #65
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    Yea but something needs to be said about the way this new regime handles player development.


    Presenting the 2013 New York Mets Outfield.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    Is the farm system better?
    Some might say it is considerably better. Even the most jaded fan would agree with that.


    Also in 2011 the Mets payroll was 140+ million, and the owners had an unsettling financial future. One would would say that had a serious impact on impending moves. And while k-rod was a solid player, his 17 million dollar vested option was absurd. Both Dickey were traded for prospects that would eventually or are top 15 prospects.
    I would say that in his time here Omar improved the farm a lot more considering what he inherited than Alderson has. Granted, Omar a lot more time but he also was in win now mode and lost some top picks. I really don't think Omar gets enough credit for the farm system he took over and what he turned it into.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Piazza View Post
    But I have to say that my time with the Mets wouldn't have been the same without the greatest fans in the world. One of the hardest moments of my career, was walking off the field at Shea Stadium and saying goodbye. My relationship with you made my time in New York the happiest of my career and for that, I will always be grateful.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5+7=DYNASTY!!! View Post
    I would say that in his time here Omar improved the farm a lot more considering what he inherited than Alderson has. Granted, Omar a lot more time but he also was in win now mode and lost some top picks. I really don't think Omar gets enough credit for the farm system he took over and what he turned it into.
    BA rated the Mets farm in 2005 as the 19th best, in 2010, the Mets farm was rated 20th.


    “Ninety percent I’ll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I’ll probably waste.”
    - Tug McGraw, on his plans for his $75,000 salary

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayamtion View Post
    BA rated the Mets farm in 2005 as the 19th best, in 2010, the Mets farm was rated 20th.
    In retrospect, was the 2005 rating accurate? Was it more productive than the 19th position, or less productive. Which way, I don't know. And in a few yerars the system as it stood in 2010 may prove to be more, or less, productive than the #20 spot.

    As you stated (I think) ratings are snapshots, but they don't always end up capturing the right details.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio40 View Post
    I'm really not sold on some of SA draft picks. I really hope Nimmo and Cecchini develop into good players but I'm not sold on them. The reviews on Nimmo have certainly been less then stellar. Don't get me wrong they both have potential to be good players but they still haven't drafted the potential star positional player. They also could have done far better then Matt Reynolds last year.
    Players were not necessarily drafted in the order of talent last season. A team's 11th round pick may well have been higher on their board than their 2nd round pick. I'm not saying this is teh case with Reynolds, but it is possible.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Players were not necessarily drafted in the order of talent last season. A team's 11th round pick may well have been higher on their board than their 2nd round pick. I'm not saying this is teh case with Reynolds, but it is possible.
    Why exactly would they wait until the eleventh round to draft someone higher on their board than they guy they pick in the second round?

    You realize this is probably the biggest reach you've ever made to justify any of the Wilpons baseball operations moves.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    Why exactly would they wait until the eleventh round to draft someone higher on their board than they guy they pick in the second round?

    You realize this is probably the biggest reach you've ever made to justify any of the Wilpons baseball operations moves.
    Because with the new rules, you can't sign a player over $100k past round 10 unless you have money left in your bonus pool from the first 10 rounds. So in theory you can overdraft a guy in say round 3 to sign a HS player making bigger demands in say round 13.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    Because with the new rules, you can't sign a player over $100k past round 10 unless you have money left in your bonus pool from the first 10 rounds. So in theory you can overdraft a guy in say round 3 to sign a HS player making bigger demands in say round 13.
    And how much money did the Wilpons spend going over slot after the 10th round compared to how much they saved going below slot early?

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    And how much money did the Wilpons spend going over slot after the 10th round compared to how much they saved going below slot early?
    I believe it broke even, but I am not sure. Going overslot is very difficult to do now with the new rules.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    I believe it broke even, but I am not sure. Going overslot is very difficult to do now with the new rules.
    Wrong.

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/10...ool-money.html

    During this year’s draft, the Mets’ Bonus Pool was $7,151,400 and they were allowed to spend $8,351,400 without incurring any penalties under the new CBA. The Mets spent $6,285,400 of their allotted pool money leaving a little over $2 million on the table. In accordance with the new rules, only $185,600 of that amount will carry over to the next draft and it is included in next year’s spending allotment reflected above.

    And the Mets lose the Bonus Pool money the Wilpons didn't spend on their second round pick this year. They only would have gotten it rolled over to next year if Stankiewicz had refused to sign for slot. Since the Mets tried to lowball him for less than slot they don't get the extra second round bonus money allotted next year.

    They will get the pick, but not the Bonus Pool space. The Wilpons basically blew a high draft pick over trying to go cheap in the draft again. This is not a real rebuild, it's a phony act they're putting on to fool the fans and keep them quiet while they slash payroll and put the savings in their pockets.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    Wrong.

    http://metsmerizedonline.com/2012/10...ool-money.html

    During this year’s draft, the Mets’ Bonus Pool was $7,151,400 and they were allowed to spend $8,351,400 without incurring any penalties under the new CBA. The Mets spent $6,285,400 of their allotted pool money leaving a little over $2 million on the table. In accordance with the new rules, only $185,600 of that amount will carry over to the next draft and it is included in next year’s spending allotment reflected above.

    And the Mets lose the Bonus Pool money the Wilpons didn't spend on their second round pick this year. They only would have gotten it rolled over to next year if Stankiewicz had refused to sign for slot. Since the Mets tried to lowball him for less than slot they don't get the extra second round bonus money allotted next year.

    They will get the pick, but not the Bonus Pool space. The Wilpons basically blew a high draft pick over trying to go cheap in the draft again. This is not a real rebuild, it's a phony act they're putting on to fool the fans and keep them quiet while they slash payroll and put the savings in their pockets.
    They spent slightly less than what they had to, not anything major. I would have liked to see a few guys here and there signed, but no one I'm going to lose sleep over. These numbers are not 100% accurate either as some player's bonuses were not leaked to the media. I think it's fair to give the Mets another year to utilize the new draft better.

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