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  1. #1
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    Interesting article on drone strikes

    "Mere words cannot match the depths of your sorrow, nor can they heal your wounded hearts These tragedies must end. And to end them, we must change." Every parent can connect with what President Barack Obama said about the murder of 20 children in Newtown, Connecticut. There can scarcely be a person on earth with access to the media who is untouched by the grief of the people of that town.

    It must follow that what applies to the children murdered there by a deranged young man also applies to the children murdered in Pakistan by a sombre American president. These children are just as important, just as real, just as deserving of the world's concern. Yet there are no presidential speeches or presidential tears for them, no pictures on the front pages of the world's newspapers, no interviews with grieving relatives, no minute analysis of what happened and why.
    The Guardian

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    The drone war is messed up and this administration is every bit as full of war criminals as the last administration.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    The drone war is messed up and this administration is every bit as full of war criminals as the last administration.
    Agreed. Obama's foreign policy is very similar to Bush's.

  4. #4
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    Drones are very effective methods of war. I wouldn't stop the drone strikes at all. Not until they are out of Afghanistan and Iraq completely, which looks like never unfortunately.

    However, it is up to the intelligence community to verify actual targets. The onus is on those people. They do their job, and children don't die. Period.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenceman View Post
    Drones are very effective methods of war. I wouldn't stop the drone strikes at all. Not until they are out of Afghanistan and Iraq completely, which looks like never unfortunately.

    However, it is up to the intelligence community to verify actual targets. The onus is on those people. They do their job, and children don't die. Period.
    Too bad it never happens like that. Your advice is about as useful as "arrest only guilty people."

  6. #6
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    there are dramatic differences at play here.

    We provide pakistan with foreign aide.
    they are supposed to be our ally.
    They refuse to police the areas of theire own nation that allow for the passing of weapons and fighters in and out of a warzone we are attempting to control.
    They withheld inteligence.
    they tipped off people that we had found them,so they could relocate.

    At some point, you have to make painful decisions.
    If the Pakistanis controlled their own side of this problem, we wouldnt have to.

    War is hell.
    If the people continuing the "raids" into Afghanistan, who are simply religious zealots with no real allegiance to anything other then a faith,cared about those children, they wouldnt intentionaly hide where they are.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by flea View Post
    Too bad it never happens like that. Your advice is about as useful as "arrest only guilty people."
    Nah, mine would be as useful as convict only guilty people.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    there are dramatic differences at play here.

    We provide pakistan with foreign aide.
    they are supposed to be our ally.
    They refuse to police the areas of theire own nation that allow for the passing of weapons and fighters in and out of a warzone we are attempting to control.
    They withheld inteligence.
    they tipped off people that we had found them,so they could relocate.

    At some point, you have to make painful decisions.
    If the Pakistanis controlled their own side of this problem, we wouldnt have to.

    War is hell.
    If the people continuing the "raids" into Afghanistan, who are simply religious zealots with no real allegiance to anything other then a faith,cared about those children, they wouldnt intentionaly hide where they are.
    attempting to control for what reason?

    not sure what to even make of the last sentence.
    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  9. #9
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    A lack of policing led to terrorist cells operating with impunity.
    That is the reason that we have been trying to establish some reasonable level of Government...to no avail.

    when we leave it is just a matter of time before we are back to do it all over again.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by stephkyle7 View Post
    A lack of policing led to terrorist cells operating with impunity.
    That is the reason that we have been trying to establish some reasonable level of Government...to no avail.

    when we leave it is just a matter of time before we are back to do it all over again.
    This is a double edged sword. Do our interventions in other countries stop more terrorists than they create? I'm not sure that we know the answer to that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GasMan View Post
    This is a double edged sword. Do our interventions in other countries stop more terrorists than they create? I'm not sure that we know the answer to that.
    Terrorism will exist even if we exercise a policy of isolation.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by nymetsrule View Post
    Terrorism will exist even if we exercise a policy of isolation.
    They hate our freedom!!!!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenceman View Post
    Drones are very effective methods of war. I wouldn't stop the drone strikes at all. Not until they are out of Afghanistan and Iraq completely, which looks like never unfortunately.

    However, it is up to the intelligence community to verify actual targets. The onus is on those people. They do their job, and children don't die. Period.
    The war itself is a crime and a huge atrocity.

    Whether or not the drones are "effective" or not is irrelevant. The only relevant thing here is that the U.S. has been committing atrocities and crimes in the middle east, and they've been creating environments where real islamic extremism can thrive (or they've just straight up supported them like in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Yemen).

    The U.S. should get out. The population of the U.S. must force their government to get out, because the U.S. government is only going to follow policies that will continue their attempts to control the world, unless their population smartens up and forces an end to the wars.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg42 View Post
    The war itself is a crime and a huge atrocity.

    Whether or not the drones are "effective" or not is irrelevant. The only relevant thing here is that the U.S. has been committing atrocities and crimes in the middle east, and they've been creating environments where real islamic extremism can thrive (or they've just straight up supported them like in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Yemen).

    The U.S. should get out. The population of the U.S. must force their government to get out, because the U.S. government is only going to follow policies that will continue their attempts to control the world, unless their population smartens up and forces an end to the wars.
    I agree, but the gov't doesn't answer to the people, it answers to big business, and for as long as it stays like that it will operate in a manner which will benefit those businesses. Also in a manner which will have half its population believing we some how have the god given right to tell anyone we want to how to run their country.

    How can a population bring an end to this imperialism? Other than absolute mass protest to the point that the economic system is in a stranglehold (which I don't think will happen), I see no answer to this question
    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by nymetsrule View Post
    Terrorism will exist even if we exercise a policy of isolation.
    Not advocating isolationism, but there has to be a reasonable compromise between isolationism and pre-emptive strikes/nation building that doesn't have our goverment killing innocent people and dictating how other countries are run.

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