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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Norwegian View Post
    That's where guys like Dugmet are going to step in. Of course you can't imagine it.

    Those guys will flatly deny the second bolded statement.

    Then I think you're trying to use a slippery slope argument, saying "well, some people have it worse". 2 things about that- I think detractors would just say that you can't use that type of argument in this situation, and even if you do, it doesn't begin to compare to things like depression and suicide.

    You also say he had a choice. Like it was between A and B. The issue of suicide for people truly suffering with depression is absolutely nothing like this.
    I understand this is your opinion... but for me, he left his wife and three young daughters behind for the rest of their lives with no husband/father. How can anything be worse than doing that to your family? And right before Christmas.....

    Your wife and children should be the number 1 thing in your life. How do you do this to them?

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by bklynny67 View Post
    I understand this is your opinion... but for me, he left his wife and three young daughters behind for the rest of their lives with no husband/father. How can anything be worse than doing that to your family? And right before Christmas.....

    Your wife and children should be the number 1 thing in your life. How do you do this to them?
    I'm still not sure how I think about the issue, but I think the rebuttal is to emphasize the horror of Freel's everyday life, and the way he suffered. This would warp the mind, and make you lose all ability to make rational choices or realize these truths. Dug did this in the first few pages of the thread.

    How can anything be worse than doing that to your family? I have no idea. I am not suffering from crippling depression. I can't really think of how it would be, but I have no idea what the extent of Freel's suffering was.

    -That would be the response.

  3. #78
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    I always respected him. He played hard and wasn't afraid to get his uniform dirty. Never gave up an AB or play in the field.
    Rest in peace, Ryan. Condolences to family and friends.

  4. #79
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    He was one of my favorite players. Never understood why he didn't get to stick around longer. Could be wrong but I recall him having a short career as a starter and as soon as he blew up Cincy got rid of him?

    Always wanted the Phils to pick him up. If time machines were real, he would have fit in with the 93 Phils very well.

  5. #80
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    Suicide takes your problems and puts them on your loved ones. I get why people feel strongly against it. But at the same time, depression is real and people that commit suicide are probably miserable beyond belief. This isn't a black and white issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Haha View Post
    What I feel right now is like the satisfaction you feel when a highly judgmental, moralistic televangelist gets caught screwing a male hooker.
    NE Patriots Forum HOF (Class of 2011)

    Trill Team

  6. #81
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    He's had 10 concussions. Imagine what that can do to the brain. He was probably unstable to actually maintain the will to stay alive any longer.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by iAugust View Post
    Never knew about this. Probably some red flags there
    He apparently liked to goof around a lot.

    apparently some days he would just sit quietly and stare at his locker, and he said his attitude depend whether or not he took his medications. while he probably saw it as joking around, today you could say it's a major red flag.
    **********

  8. #83
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    Such a shame ...life after sports out of the spot life may be very depressing but still shoulda got help suicide is a cowards way out still a tragedy

    steal of the draft cleanthony early

  9. #84
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    As you can see by my name "Freel for Prez" I am a huge fan. Freel was the definition of hustle. He sacrificed everything out there on the field everyday. To his epic clutch catch against Pujols or his head first dive at Wrigley to get an out, he was truly a special player. There aren't many players like him anymore and he will be greatly missed. RIP "The Flying Squirrel" Ryan Freel.

    GODS OF JUICE

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by NYKNYGNYY View Post
    Such a shame ...life after sports out of the spot life may be very depressing but still shoulda got help suicide is a cowards way out still a tragedy
    No.

    I cannot speak for all situations -- and I am not specifically talking about Ryan Freel, but you have no idea how much courage it can take to take your life. It takes a lot of courage to leave loved ones behind -- if there are loved ones. Some people are in deep agonizing pain. Pain that does not stop - for many years. The pain is no different than being in physical pain, because it is physical. Sometimes nothing helps. Counseling doesn't help. Meds do not help. Vacations do not help. Nothing helps.

    If you were to be in constant physical agony for many years, and submitted yourself to every possible treatment, and yet you still remained in agony...you would reach a breaking point, and you would choose death if you could. Everyone has one.

    Why would you want a loved one to live a life of agony? Be a better person and let them go, release them from their pain, and let them find peace. The irony is that your perspective is selfish. Your perspective is cowardly. This is what society tells you, but be brave enough to let them go, and at least think twice before calling someone who took their life a coward.

    I support assisted suicide.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 12-24-2012 at 10:32 AM.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Norwegian View Post
    I'm still not sure how I think about the issue, but I think the rebuttal is to emphasize the horror of Freel's everyday life, and the way he suffered. This would warp the mind, and make you lose all ability to make rational choices or realize these truths. Dug did this in the first few pages of the thread.

    How can anything be worse than doing that to your family? I have no idea. I am not suffering from crippling depression. I can't really think of how it would be, but I have no idea what the extent of Freel's suffering was.

    -That would be the response.
    This is true. That is the response, and this is the depth to which depression can take someone -- to a place that is unimaginable. People cannot imagine this place, and yet it exists. We need to accept this.

    I support assisted suicide for people who suffer daily from mental and physical illness. I would like for people who wish to take their lives due to depression to get supportive and caring treatment for two years. Then, if they choose to end their life - with a physician's approval - they could die with dignity, in a bed, with loved ones to hold their hands, with a kiss on the forehead, and off to sleep. Instead of leaving a bloody mess for a family member to discover, and someone to clean up after.

    Doesn't this make good sense? This could never happen in our culture, but at least we can be more compassionate and understanding without judging them.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 12-24-2012 at 10:41 AM.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  12. #87
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    I support assisted suicide.
    I support assisted suicide.
    I support assisted suicide.

    You don't say

  13. #88
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    I can't stand people who have the Dr. Kevorkian mentality. You people are sick yourselves.

    Future Hall of Shamers:
    (1) B.A.L.C.O. Barroids (2) Mark McJuicer (3) Jose Chem-seco (4) Rafael Palmeiroids (5) Ken Chem-initi (6) Jason Gi-andro (7) Ryan Fraud (8) Muscle Melk (9) Woman-Ram (10) Shammy Sosa (11) Roger Clear-mens (12) A-Roid

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgerdave View Post
    I can't stand people who have the Dr. Kevorkian mentality. You people are sick yourselves.
    Not at all. We are very humane people.

    I've explained my reasoning, but you did not explain yours except to resort to name-calling. Is yours the intelligent position? Explain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Seguin View Post
    I support assisted suicide.
    I support assisted suicide.
    I support assisted suicide.

    You don't say
    Well thought out.
    "The 90 wins is about challenge. It's about changing the conversation. It's about framing questions for ourselves as to how we get there. So I stand by the notion that we need to get better, and in doing so we need to set concrete goals for ourselves so that we have sort of specific conversations among ourselves about how we're going to get there." -- Mr. Alderson

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    No.

    I cannot speak for all situations -- and I am not specifically talking about Ryan Freel, but you have no idea how much courage it can take to take your life. It takes a lot of courage to leave loved ones behind -- if there are loved ones. Some people are in deep agonizing pain. Pain that does not stop - for many years. The pain is no different than being in physical pain, because it is physical. Sometimes nothing helps. Counseling doesn't help. Meds do not help. Vacations do not help. Nothing helps.

    If you were to be in constant physical agony for many years, and submitted yourself to every possible treatment, and yet you still remained in agony...you would reach a breaking point, and you would choose death if you could. Everyone has one.

    Why would you want a loved one to live a life of agony? Be a better person and let them go, release them from their pain, and let them find peace. The irony is that your perspective is selfish. Your perspective is cowardly. This is what society tells you, but be brave enough to let them go, and at least think twice before calling someone who took their life a coward.

    I support assisted suicide.
    Let's just hope you seek help yourself

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