BaxterHolmes Baxter Holmes
Shaq on leaving Magic for Lakers: "Do I regret leaving here in '96, yes I do.”
BaxterHolmes Baxter Holmes
Shaq on leaving Magic for Lakers: "Do I regret leaving here in '96, yes I do.”
Kobe was dfntly going for 50 this game
If all you can do is complain about his shot thats pretty bad becuase he did so much more than that. Why did Mark Jackson go away from the hot hand Jack? It's becuase Kobe began to guard him. Again he had 1 freethrow and he attacked the rim all night and hacked all night,but no call, yet he didnt let that take away from his aggression. Did Kobe have a couple bonehead lasps on defence? yes! But Mark wasnt directing his players to attack him as the weak link was he? No he was attacking Nash with Jack and Pau with Landry even though his best players were Curry and Thompson.
Is your argument for the reason we suffer as a team is Kobe's shot attempts your not watching the game, and if you wanna complain about Kobe's defence than you never listen to any of Phils coaching special, or watched him coach, becuase if you did you would know that Phil plays the percentages with defence. A three is a lesser percentage shot than 15ft jump shot. He believed you should run out to contest a three but pack the paint to force lower percentage shots and get the rebound. Phil taught Kobe this for most of his career, and it got him 5 rings, so no he's not gonna put extreme pressure on a shooter from distance unless that player is hot. Also if you watched the blowby on defence you would see Kobe sending the player to the shot blocker. You may see this as an excuse but it's truth and the true question is, are you willing to except it and look at the game in a different light.
I know we can get emotional during games and be pist when a player is open, but when you take a step back, and take a breath you see things are not what they seem to be. Also i would like to note that Golden State was on a back to back, and if i was a coach of that team i would also play the percentages and force teams to shoot from distant, to see where ther leggs are, but what i would not do is wait until Jack ripps us for 16pts on the same player before i put a bigger and better defensive player on him. To me thats what hurt us the most, becuase we had a little lead before they attacked Nash with Jack repeatly which forced us to over help and as a result left players open for 11 jacks assists to go with his 20+ points Off The Bench!!! That was embarrasing.
Pretty much every basketball player in the pros can say, "Hey -- I took good shots, they just didn't fall." But 41 shots? 41?!?!
Yes, he contributed in other areas. But so do other players, and yet if they have a bad shooting night either on volume or percentage they get roasted. As for being clutch, the only reason he looked clutch was because he kept the other team in the game. That's a charge that's been leveled at Kobe before, and it's a tendency of his that I hate.
As for Kobe's defense, he used to be really good. Now he's old and slow and shies away from contact. I'd be happy if he only played hard the last few minutes of each quarter, but he's so obsessed with his offense these days that any opportunity to shoot is a good one -- including those he creates simply by letting the other team get an easy look so he can get the ball back. (A disease that afflicts a lot of high-scoring players in the NBA, who know they get paid for putting up points, not taking points away from others.)
I'm just sick of the Kult of Kobe. He's not a god. He's a basketball player. Everybody's got an unending string of reasons why taking 41 shots and shooting a horrible, ugly percentage is perfectly fine, if not somehow a sign of how great he is. But Bill Russel doesn't play that game. Magic doesn't. Bird doesn't. Not even MJ plays that game.
Maybe Kobe could have gotten away with it when he was young and unstoppable, but he's old now, and he can be stopped. All those shots at the rim that "just didn't fall" would have been dunks, be he doesn't have the legs for that kind of play most of the time. Which is why he should be leaning on the team more than he is. Because as far as I can tell, despite all the *****ing, this team is actually coming together.
Again: the entire rest of the team shot 50% for the game. Take away Kobe's misses and you not only take points off the board for GS, you get more makes for our team in the process. How is that bad? I mean, except for Kobe worshippers?
lakers4sho | Chavacano | EricBallsachs | Avenged24 | still1ballin | GREATNESS ONE | Chacarron
LakersMaster24 | KB-Pau-DH2012 | 8kobe24 | championships | Lakers+Giants | LakerShow
AussieLaker | YouCan'tBeatLA
PSD Anime Forum, anyone?
Also callig someone a Kobe worshipper dosent strenghthen your argument, and ofcourse his defence is not the same he's 17 years in! but he's playing the defence that got him his rings, taught by a coach that's the winningest coach in american sports history i beileve, period. When they needed to cool Jack off who got the assignment? and what were the results?
Magic is my alltime favorite player but that dosent blind me to Kobe's greatness not saying he's better lol, im just not blinded by my era. Kobe in his 17th season is still a top 5 player, thats dedication, and i find it sad that a player of his calibar gets berated, and picked apart by this fan base dispite the success he's had hand in briging this franchice, and how even when ther wasnt a typical Lakers roster on the floor the Lakers still had a packed house, and was still nationaly televised becuase of that kid, but all you can talk about is his shot taken.
Am I saying Kobe is flawless? Hell No!!!!!! but you wont find me bashing him, brcuase weve won way more with him tham weve lost, and in 17 years i believe this kid will come through and deliver. This kid comes to play every night, you cant say the same about say a Pau and even a Dwight of late, so I would be pissed if they put up those amount of shots becuase 1 they'er not scorers though they have that ability to, and 2 they have not given me any reason to have the same level of faith in ther game. I had it in Pau until last year. I gave in to his emotional excuses in 2011 and back hmi, like i back Kob but after last year I just cant do it now.
Last edited by SirSkyHook; 12-24-2012 at 05:10 AM.
Cant you guys respond without having to write a god damn book
I kind of got the feeling Kobe was trying to prove something this game. Maybe with Nash back? Also, I am worried Kobe is going after the scoring record instead of focusing his energy elsewhere. This team really could use his energy on defense. But it is what it is...he's still the best player on the team.
you can really tell by those individuals that watch only the basketball floating to the rim, and not the context of the game
But they are easy to point out by evidence of their everlasting love for D'Antoni
This game is really no barometer of anything in terms of Bryant. Why ? Because Kobe took 18 shots in the paint early on [ through three quarters, 19 total in the contest ] and the only FT he got was a GS technical. That obvious distortion of true game dynamics by the referees altered the relative score of the two teams until the fourth quarter 'comeback' by the Lakers AND threw Bryant's stat line so out of kilter that a streaky/mediocre shooting night all of a sudden looks, in retrospect, like an abomination in judgment of dismal proportions ...
Last edited by gr824; 12-24-2012 at 01:33 PM.
Holy hell, talk about damning someone with faint praise.
How about we go the other way and ask an actually useful question? Why isn't Kobe more like all of the other players that we think of as truly great? Why can't he play more like Magic and Bird, or Russell, or West? Why can't he play an all-around game in which he dominates the game with his mind instead of just with his will and talent and physical ability?
The answer, unfortunately, is that Kobe Bryant simply can't get his mind around the team game. He couldn't do it when he had Shaq on the team, and could have easily won at least two more rings with Shaq -- even if Shaq was a bloated toad. The only thing Kobe Bryant knows how to do is attack, and he's created a fantasy world in which no amount of attacking is wrong.
If Kobe's on, then the says, "Well, if I'm on, why shouldn't I keep shooting until they stop me?" And all the little Kobe bobble-head fans nod up and down like religious fanatics.
If Kobe's missing, then he says, "Well, if I'm missing, that just means I need to try harder and to believe in myself." And all the little Kobe bobble-head fans nod up and down like religious fanatics.
Who the hell wouldn't like to live in a world in which the success of the team was defined by their own success? Who wouldn't like to live in a world in which you can do no wrong -- even if you jack up 41 shots in a game?!
And we haven't even gotten to the ugly question of why he did that in Steve Nash's first game back. What was he trying to do -- remind Nash that it's his (Kobe's) team? Even though "Kobe's team" has been utter crap all season?
So yes -- I agree with you. What we saw in the last game was Iverson-esque. It was a ball-hogging demonstration that may or may not have been affected by the refs, but it was ball-hogging nonetheless. And once and for all it revealed that for all Kobe's talk about needing to trust his teammates, he doesn't care whether they can be trusted at all. They were shooting 50% for the game, but he just kept chucking, playing to the voices in his head.
No, I did no overall comparison of Bryant's 'game' to Iverson's, at least not in the way you imply when you ran with my comments. I brought up AI to show an example of a player who truly does/did 'chuck' far worse than Bryant, yet one who the league/fans 'supported' and certainly did not laugh at, which explodes the hyperbole from your earlier post ...
The rest of the Lakers shot very well during the fourth quarter and overtime [ by my quick count, 13-21 ], but not so great through three [ 44+% ]. Had the refs called the fouls Bryant deserved in the first three quarters, Bryant would have been, say, 16-36 [ 44.4% ] or 16-37 [ 43.2% ], plus he would have shot 8 or 10 more FTs, too, meaning a stat line of, probably, 40-42 points on 36-37 shots and [ about ] 44% shooting. Not a tremendous line, but surely not one that would justify berating and pillorying him the way you are in this thread ...
Also, keep in mind that the Lakers as whole had well over 100 shots from the field in this game [ 107, to be exact ], so, even as the box score stands, Bryant took 'only' 38% of the team's shots, not a low percentage, to be sure, but not outrageously high by any means either. Had fouls been called where they should have been [ as I indicated above ], the Kobe-to-team shot percentage would have been even lower [ 35.3%-35.9% ] ...
Like I said before, this contest was no barometer, at least not a working one ...
Last edited by gr824; 12-24-2012 at 03:11 PM.