Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





View Poll Results: Who will start the season as the #2? And which pitcher is most talented?

Voters
50. You may not vote on this poll
  • Morrow will be the #2 and is the most talented.

    10 20.00%
  • Morrow will be the #2 but Johnson is the most talented.

    3 6.00%
  • Johnson will be the #2 and is the most talented.

    22 44.00%
  • Johnson will be the #2 but Morrow is the most talented.

    15 30.00%
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 81
  1. #46
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bedford, NS
    Posts
    1,686
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by chips420 View Post
    Johnson would make more sense at 2, his career era is 3.10 compared to Morrow's 4.10 they both have similar s.o/9( morrow a little higher) and bb/9. IF Johnson can stay healthy for a season I think he can be a potential cy young award candidate plus as mentioned earlier its a contract year for him
    what would their ERA's be if Morrow pitched in the NL and Johnson in the AL East over their careers?

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    windsor
    Posts
    2,005
    vCash
    1500
    I would put Morrow in the 2 spot only because JJ will have to face 9 hitters instead of 8 this year. Having no break in the lineup might take some getting used to.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,335
    vCash
    1500
    We don't even know for sure what we have with Josh Johnson yet. We know Morrow can throw complete games and keep the score low. To me there is no question he is our #2.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    70
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Not buying into the "luck" theory. Who's to say the BAPIP didn't drop dramatically because he had figured things out?
    Because his 2010 babip was un-sustainably high, and this year was un-sustainably low. Meaning, no pitcher in history has ever been that high (2010) or low (2012) over any decent sample size.

    Very few pitchers are able to induce weak contact enough to make any meaningful drop under .300 babip. Knuckleballers seem to be the best at it, but they are still generally in and around the .270's. Out of regular pitchers one of the best seems to be Buehrle, who has a .289 career babip. So, if he's one of the best at it, how could a babip of .252 be anything other than luck?


    it's not easy to put up a BAPIP like that over than many innings.
    'ease' has nothing to do with it. Luck does. And, it happens all the time over small samples of 120 innings


    Johnson said it himself(prior to Dickey) that Morrow was the ace of the staff.
    PR talk is pretty meaningless.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    19,826
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Not buying into the "luck" theory. Who's to say the BAPIP didn't drop dramatically because he had figured things out? it's not easy to put up a BAPIP like that over than many innings. Eventually it will catch up if you're missing your spots. He also puts up K's and has great velocity and movement. Johnson said it himself(prior to Dickey) that Morrow was the ace of the staff.
    Generally speaking the only players capable of sustaining a BABIP lower than 280 over a significant period of time (800-1000 innings, if not more) are guys who throw knuckleballs and change ups. I looked between 1990-2012 for anybody with a career BABIP lower than 270, and on top of being a fairly small list, it's virtually all change ups & knuckleballers.

    Modern pitchers include:

    Jeremy Hellickson (244 career, but 2 years at 260) - Change Up thrown 29.9% of the time.

    Charlie Hough - 253 BABIP, knuckleball

    Matt Cain - Change up is one of his top pitches.

    Shaun Marcum - 268 BABIP...and known for his change.

    Jered Weaver - Change up is his next best pitch

    Barry Zito - Better known for his curve, his change has been one of his best pitches. Also has played in spacious parks allowing them to cut down on the BABIP.

    Ted Lilly - Another change up guy.

    Johan Santana - Famous for, you guessed it, the change up.

    Tim Wakefield - 274 BABIP over that time, and throws a knuckler.

    There are exceptions, but generally speaking you need to have a change up or knuckleball, a pitch that can mess with a hitters timing and succeeds because of that in order to have a lower than average BABIP. Guys like Morrow who pile on the strikeouts generally aren't able to reduce the BABIP consistently.

    Makes sense when you think about it - when Morrow succeeds it's by getting strikeouts, which aren't included in BABIP because it's not a ball put in play. If Morrow allows contact then the hitter gets it right on, making solid contact. A guy like Marcum doesn't allow as much "solid contact" as someone like Morrow, because the hitter is looking fastball and ends up hitting a change. Morrow doesn't change speeds as much, which is why the hitter could make more consistent/solid contact.

    I don't want this to sound like Marcum or change up pitchers are better than Morrow, just that they succeed in different ways. And it's just not likely that Morrow's success will be based on posting a low BABIP. And I just don't see Morrow coming close to a 250 BABIP ever again.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    windsor
    Posts
    2,005
    vCash
    1500
    To think we started last year with:

    Romero
    Morrow
    Carreno
    Alvarez
    Drabek

    Carreno went to LV, Laffey came up.

    This year?

    Dickey
    Morrow
    Bark Muehrle
    JJ
    Romero

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,481
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
    Have you tried watching him pitch? That should start to give you an idea....
    Yea I have seen him pitch thank you. I never said he was a bad pitcher .. Just that he's not a better pitcher then Johnson .. I think Johnson is the clear cut #2

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    True North Strong and Free
    Posts
    1,449
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by jaysnraptors44 View Post
    Yea I have seen him pitch thank you. I never said he was a bad pitcher .. Just that he's not a better pitcher then Johnson .. I think Johnson is the clear cut #2
    Right but said you don't understand all the love for Morrow. There are a very select few pitchers who can dominate batters like Morrow does when he's healthy and on his game. The "love" comes from the fact that he flashes Cy Young type stuff and just needs to put it together for a full year.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    windsor
    Posts
    2,005
    vCash
    1500
    I guess a little levity concerning last years staff didn't work.

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,799
    vCash
    1500
    Just imagine having both Morrow and JJ at the top of their game.ray:
    I really don't know who would be better.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    2,481
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by heusy_79 View Post
    Right but said you don't understand all the love for Morrow. There are a very select few pitchers who can dominate batters like Morrow does when he's healthy and on his game. The "love" comes from the fact that he flashes Cy Young type stuff and just needs to put it together for a full year.
    There's no doubt that his stuff is great but maybe there's to much love in this forum for him. This guy has only had one good season which was last year and he is being put above guys like Johnson and Dickey

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Key Biscayne, Florida
    Posts
    9,976
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by lobster View Post
    I like Morrow but Johnson has pitched better to this point in their careers. I would set it up like this
    Dickey
    Johnson
    Romero
    Morrow
    Beurhle
    Where does Happ fit in on this team?
    If 1 of those 5 guys blows a tire, other than that #6 guy, the longman in the BP.

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,842
    vCash
    1500
    Quote Originally Posted by wagnall View Post
    Someone is 1 and someone is 5. If your going R,L,R,L,R and barring injury, which is unlikely, as it happens., everyone gets 30+ starts. It won't matter who is slotted where, but if we are going R/L then either Romero or Buehrle is at 2.
    Not worth it. In that scenario you will still have 2 righties back to back 5 and 1. With the knuckler going 1, then a righty next doesn't matter as its night and day as far a the look and timing of pitchers.

    I love the mix of styles and l/r, from knuckle to RH power to LH back to RH power to another LH to knuckle. If there's any real benefit to staggering types of pitcher from day to day (not sure if it really makes any difference, kinda like overblown myth of lineup protection IMO.)
    Damn April can't come fast enough.

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    510
    vCash
    1500
    I don't think it really makes much of a difference except in the ego department. I would give it to Johnson based on previous track record, but in the grand scheme of things it's just a number and means very little.

    I will say it's a nice problem to have.

    #firstworldproblems

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,718
    vCash
    1500
    If jj's shoulder issues are behind him and his velocity ticks back up, watch out, scary stuff.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •