Who's #2? Morrow or Johnson???

[StealingSigns]

It's incredible that we are having a discussion that one of Morrow or Johnson will be the Jays number four.

I can't wait for opening day.

I'm leaning towards Morrow as the #2. But really if they both pitch to potential and are injury free, they are interchangeable.

Scary.

[jaysnraptors44]

Johnson he's the better pitcher no questions asked.

[jaysnraptors44]

Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum

[Halladay]

Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum

Are you kidding me?

[heusy_79]

Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum

Have you tried watching him pitch? That should start to give you an idea....

[rapsjaysfan88]

Morrow pitched like a number one last year, if not for inuries he would have had a better season then jj

[dtmagnet]

Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum

Maybe because he's one of the best pitchers in the AL when he's not on the DL.

[StealingSigns]

Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum

Care to explain?

[hendrix]

I can't see a single argument that justifies putting Morrow ahead of Johnson.

Johnson has a career 3.15 era, 3.20 fip, 3.57 xFIP. He's put up 5.6, and 6.3 fWAR seasons (6.4, 6.8 rWAR). Those are amazing/ace/Cy Young, type numbers.

Last year Morrow had his best year ever, and Johnson wasn't as good as he's been in the past, and he still had better fWAR, FIP, and xFIP #'s than Morrow.

Injuries are pretty much a wash, and it really doesn't matter once the season gets rolling anyways.

Johnson has the 12th highest fWAR in all of baseball over the last 4 years, and 17th highest over the last 3 years. And, that's while pitching a couple hundred games less than all the other guys above him. If he was pitching as much as those guys he'd be top 5. Imo, the guy is an ace, and the only reason he shouldn't be #1 is because we happen to have a Cy Young winner on our team. But dropping an 'ace' level pitcher down to #4 isn't right imo, especially when we kind of want him to stick around next year and resign.

I like Morrow as much as anyone, but he's not on Johnson's level.

[Halladay]

I can't see a single argument that justifies putting Morrow ahead of Johnson.

Johnson has a career 3.15 era, 3.20 fip, 3.57 xFIP. He's put up 5.6, and 6.3 fWAR seasons (6.4, 6.8 rWAR). Those are amazing/ace/Cy Young, type numbers.

Last year Morrow had his best year ever, and Johnson wasn't as good as he's been in the past, and he still had better fWAR, FIP, and xFIP #'s than Morrow.

Injuries are pretty much a wash, and it really doesn't matter once the season gets rolling anyways.

Johnson has the 12th highest fWAR in all of baseball over the last 4 years, and 17th highest over the last 3 years. And, that's while pitching a couple hundred games less than all the other guys above him. If he was pitching as much as those guys he'd be top 5. Imo, the guy is an ace, and the only reason he shouldn't be #1 is because we happen to have a Cy Young winner on our team. But dropping an 'ace' level pitcher down to #4 isn't right imo, especially when we kind of want him to stick around next year and resign.

I like Morrow as much as anyone, but he's not on Johnson's level.

Would you not agree that Morrow has continually gotten better over the years and is ready for a break out? I think he projects to be as good, if not better than JJ next season. Health is a big question mark for both obviously, but I'd put my money on Morrow slightly outperforming JJ.

[lobster]

I like Morrow but Johnson has pitched better to this point in their careers. I would set it up like this
Dickey
Johnson
Romero
Morrow
Beurhle
Where does Happ fit in on this team?

[hendrix]

Would you not agree that Morrow has continually gotten better over the years and is ready for a break out? I think he projects to be as good, if not better than JJ next season. Health is a big question mark for both obviously, but I'd put my money on Morrow slightly outperforming JJ.

I think he's been great the last few years to tell you the truth, and the biggest change last year was luck.

The commentators/media talked a lot about how him toning down his velocity for greater control was the source of his improvement. And, to a degree they were right, but imo it's a much smaller degree than reality.

The guy had a .252babip, and 77.3LOB% last year. 2 years ago his babip was .090 point's higher, and last year his LOB% was 12% lower. A ton of that is change in luck going from awful luck to great luck. The guy didn't just magically become and amazing GB pitcher, and amazing out of the stretch. Romero had the same kind of great luck 2 years ago, but we knew the guy wasn't really a 2.92era ace, and things would swing back on him.

Imo, the true Morrow is somewhere between last years great season, and the previous years awful season. I don't see him breaking out, but rather regressing from last season's ERA. I still think that would make for a great pitcher, but not as good as Johnson, who has put up some of the best #'s in the league. Of course I'm assuming equal health for both when comparing, as I have no idea how injuries will shake down.

[Halladay]

I think he's been great the last few years to tell you the truth, and the biggest change last year was luck.

The commentators/media talked a lot about how him toning down his velocity for greater control was the source of his improvement. And, to a degree they were right, but imo it's a much smaller degree than reality.

The guy had a .252babip, and 77.3LOB% last year. 2 years ago his babip was .090 point's higher, and last year his LOB% was 12% lower. A ton of that is change in luck going from awful luck to great luck. The guy didn't just magically become and amazing GB pitcher, and amazing out of the stretch. Romero had the same kind of great luck 2 years ago, but we knew the guy wasn't really a 2.92era ace, and things would swing back on him.

Imo, the true Morrow is somewhere between last years great season, and the previous years awful season. I don't see him breaking out, but rather regressing from last season's ERA. I still think that would make for a great pitcher, but not as good as Johnson, who has put up some of the best #'s in the league. Of course I'm assuming equal health for both when comparing, as I have no idea how injuries will shake down.

Not buying into the "luck" theory. Who's to say the BAPIP didn't drop dramatically because he had figured things out? it's not easy to put up a BAPIP like that over than many innings. Eventually it will catch up if you're missing your spots. He also puts up K's and has great velocity and movement. Johnson said it himself(prior to Dickey) that Morrow was the ace of the staff.

[dballss]

they both have ace stuff, morrow might even have the edge cus of his velocity, but JJ has been consistent for many more years...and i like the idea of splitting them up cus they have too similar of stuff
dickey
jj
romero/buehrle
morrow
buehrle/romero

strong from top to bottom

[TheKidKJ]

they both have ace stuff, morrow might even have the edge cus of his velocity, but JJ has been consistent for many more years...and i like the idea of splitting them up cus they have too similar of stuff
dickey
jj
romero/buehrle
morrow
buehrle/romero

strong from top to bottom

I find it very interesting how some people are debating over who will be the #3 and #5 between Buehrle and Romero. Is it just me or is Romero the clear #5 in the rotation based on last year's performance and MB consistency???