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View Poll Results: Who will start the season as the #2? And which pitcher is most talented?

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  • Morrow will be the #2 and is the most talented.

    10 20.00%
  • Morrow will be the #2 but Johnson is the most talented.

    3 6.00%
  • Johnson will be the #2 and is the most talented.

    22 44.00%
  • Johnson will be the #2 but Morrow is the most talented.

    15 30.00%
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Results 31 to 45 of 81
  1. #31
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    It's incredible that we are having a discussion that one of Morrow or Johnson will be the Jays number four.

    I can't wait for opening day.

    I'm leaning towards Morrow as the #2. But really if they both pitch to potential and are injury free, they are interchangeable.

    Scary.
    Blue Jays Ace Todd Redmond

  2. #32
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    Johnson he's the better pitcher no questions asked.

  3. #33
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    Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysnraptors44 View Post
    Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum
    Are you kidding me?

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysnraptors44 View Post
    Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum
    Have you tried watching him pitch? That should start to give you an idea....

  6. #36
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    Morrow pitched like a number one last year, if not for inuries he would have had a better season then jj

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysnraptors44 View Post
    Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum
    Maybe because he's one of the best pitchers in the AL when he's not on the DL.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaysnraptors44 View Post
    Have no idea why there's so much love for Morrow on this forum
    Care to explain?
    Blue Jays Ace Todd Redmond

  9. #39
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    I can't see a single argument that justifies putting Morrow ahead of Johnson.

    Johnson has a career 3.15 era, 3.20 fip, 3.57 xFIP. He's put up 5.6, and 6.3 fWAR seasons (6.4, 6.8 rWAR). Those are amazing/ace/Cy Young, type numbers.

    Last year Morrow had his best year ever, and Johnson wasn't as good as he's been in the past, and he still had better fWAR, FIP, and xFIP #'s than Morrow.

    Injuries are pretty much a wash, and it really doesn't matter once the season gets rolling anyways.

    Johnson has the 12th highest fWAR in all of baseball over the last 4 years, and 17th highest over the last 3 years. And, that's while pitching a couple hundred games less than all the other guys above him. If he was pitching as much as those guys he'd be top 5. Imo, the guy is an ace, and the only reason he shouldn't be #1 is because we happen to have a Cy Young winner on our team. But dropping an 'ace' level pitcher down to #4 isn't right imo, especially when we kind of want him to stick around next year and resign.

    I like Morrow as much as anyone, but he's not on Johnson's level.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    I can't see a single argument that justifies putting Morrow ahead of Johnson.

    Johnson has a career 3.15 era, 3.20 fip, 3.57 xFIP. He's put up 5.6, and 6.3 fWAR seasons (6.4, 6.8 rWAR). Those are amazing/ace/Cy Young, type numbers.

    Last year Morrow had his best year ever, and Johnson wasn't as good as he's been in the past, and he still had better fWAR, FIP, and xFIP #'s than Morrow.

    Injuries are pretty much a wash, and it really doesn't matter once the season gets rolling anyways.

    Johnson has the 12th highest fWAR in all of baseball over the last 4 years, and 17th highest over the last 3 years. And, that's while pitching a couple hundred games less than all the other guys above him. If he was pitching as much as those guys he'd be top 5. Imo, the guy is an ace, and the only reason he shouldn't be #1 is because we happen to have a Cy Young winner on our team. But dropping an 'ace' level pitcher down to #4 isn't right imo, especially when we kind of want him to stick around next year and resign.

    I like Morrow as much as anyone, but he's not on Johnson's level.
    Would you not agree that Morrow has continually gotten better over the years and is ready for a break out? I think he projects to be as good, if not better than JJ next season. Health is a big question mark for both obviously, but I'd put my money on Morrow slightly outperforming JJ.

  11. #41
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    I like Morrow but Johnson has pitched better to this point in their careers. I would set it up like this
    Dickey
    Johnson
    Romero
    Morrow
    Beurhle
    Where does Happ fit in on this team?
    Last edited by lobster; 12-22-2012 at 04:34 AM.
    Eat Lobster

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halladay View Post
    Would you not agree that Morrow has continually gotten better over the years and is ready for a break out? I think he projects to be as good, if not better than JJ next season. Health is a big question mark for both obviously, but I'd put my money on Morrow slightly outperforming JJ.
    I think he's been great the last few years to tell you the truth, and the biggest change last year was luck.

    The commentators/media talked a lot about how him toning down his velocity for greater control was the source of his improvement. And, to a degree they were right, but imo it's a much smaller degree than reality.

    The guy had a .252babip, and 77.3LOB% last year. 2 years ago his babip was .090 point's higher, and last year his LOB% was 12% lower. A ton of that is change in luck going from awful luck to great luck. The guy didn't just magically become and amazing GB pitcher, and amazing out of the stretch. Romero had the same kind of great luck 2 years ago, but we knew the guy wasn't really a 2.92era ace, and things would swing back on him.

    Imo, the true Morrow is somewhere between last years great season, and the previous years awful season. I don't see him breaking out, but rather regressing from last season's ERA. I still think that would make for a great pitcher, but not as good as Johnson, who has put up some of the best #'s in the league. Of course I'm assuming equal health for both when comparing, as I have no idea how injuries will shake down.
    Last edited by hendrix; 12-22-2012 at 04:47 AM.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hendrix View Post
    I think he's been great the last few years to tell you the truth, and the biggest change last year was luck.

    The commentators/media talked a lot about how him toning down his velocity for greater control was the source of his improvement. And, to a degree they were right, but imo it's a much smaller degree than reality.

    The guy had a .252babip, and 77.3LOB% last year. 2 years ago his babip was .090 point's higher, and last year his LOB% was 12% lower. A ton of that is change in luck going from awful luck to great luck. The guy didn't just magically become and amazing GB pitcher, and amazing out of the stretch. Romero had the same kind of great luck 2 years ago, but we knew the guy wasn't really a 2.92era ace, and things would swing back on him.

    Imo, the true Morrow is somewhere between last years great season, and the previous years awful season. I don't see him breaking out, but rather regressing from last season's ERA. I still think that would make for a great pitcher, but not as good as Johnson, who has put up some of the best #'s in the league. Of course I'm assuming equal health for both when comparing, as I have no idea how injuries will shake down.
    Not buying into the "luck" theory. Who's to say the BAPIP didn't drop dramatically because he had figured things out? it's not easy to put up a BAPIP like that over than many innings. Eventually it will catch up if you're missing your spots. He also puts up K's and has great velocity and movement. Johnson said it himself(prior to Dickey) that Morrow was the ace of the staff.

  14. #44
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    they both have ace stuff, morrow might even have the edge cus of his velocity, but JJ has been consistent for many more years...and i like the idea of splitting them up cus they have too similar of stuff
    dickey
    jj
    romero/buehrle
    morrow
    buehrle/romero

    strong from top to bottom

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dballss View Post
    they both have ace stuff, morrow might even have the edge cus of his velocity, but JJ has been consistent for many more years...and i like the idea of splitting them up cus they have too similar of stuff
    dickey
    jj
    romero/buehrle
    morrow
    buehrle/romero

    strong from top to bottom
    I find it very interesting how some people are debating over who will be the #3 and #5 between Buehrle and Romero. Is it just me or is Romero the clear #5 in the rotation based on last year's performance and MB consistency???

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