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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Young2Kinsler View Post
    I think they are trying to plug 1-2 years, maybe 3, until Jorge Alfaro is ready. He has a Profar like ceiling.
    Interesting. I have not read that much about Alfaro. Hopefully eventually we do, but I thought we had that in a combo of Salty and Teagarden as well, and that was an epic fail.
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  2. #17
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    I am waiting anxiously for the "Rangers overpaid for AJ" talk to start... When we are wallowing 5 or 10 games below .500 in late August and September we call at least be at peace that we did not OVERPAY or sign a guy to a contract we would regret in year 5 or 6 or otherwise be an albatross.
    In the context of Rangers Baseball Business: Albatross=the incremental amount of money taken out of the owners OPERATING PROFIT vs. signing cheaper replacement players. It is nice that all of you 50 to 75k per year guys on this board are so concerned if Ranger ownership makes 70 million per year vs. 35 or 40 million per year in 2017. Afterall when they sell the team in 10 years or so they will give all of us a share of the capital appreciation in their sold asset, correct? You ****ing "good thing the Rangers didnt over pay" morons. Happy Holidays everyone...
    Last edited by zookman65; 12-27-2012 at 10:02 AM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    I am waiting anxiously for the "Rangers overpaid for AJ" talk to start... When we are wallowing 5 or 10 games below .500 in late August and September we call at least be at peace that we did not OVERPAY or sign a guy to a contract we would regret in year 5 or 6 or otherwise be an albatross.
    In the context of Rangers Baseball Business: Albatross=the incremental amount of money taken out of the owners OPERATING PROFIT vs. signing cheaper replacement players. It is nice that all of you 50 to 75k per year guys on this board are so concerned if Ranger ownership makes 70 million per year vs. 35 or 40 million per year in 2017. Afterall when they sell the team in 10 years or so they will give all of us a share of the capital appreciation in their sold asset, correct? You ****ing "good thing the Rangers didnt over pay" morons. Happy Holidays everyone...
    Haha. So true.

    I'm curious...Anyone upset at all the money we've wasted on our projects?

    Does anyone realize that we've spent $32.625m just on the contracts of Jason Jennings, Rich Harden, Scott Feldman (only tallying his extension), Roy Oswalt and Brandon Webb?

    How'd those projects work out? You satisfied going the "cheap" route on those players?

    That's right Rangers homers...nevermind the facts.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    I am waiting anxiously for the "Rangers overpaid for AJ" talk to start... When we are wallowing 5 or 10 games below .500 in late August and September we call at least be at peace that we did not OVERPAY or sign a guy to a contract we would regret in year 5 or 6 or otherwise be an albatross.
    In the context of Rangers Baseball Business: Albatross=the incremental amount of money taken out of the owners OPERATING PROFIT vs. signing cheaper replacement players. It is nice that all of you 50 to 75k per year guys on this board are so concerned if Ranger ownership makes 70 million per year vs. 35 or 40 million per year in 2017. Afterall when they sell the team in 10 years or so they will give all of us a share of the capital appreciation in their sold asset, correct? You ****ing "good thing the Rangers didnt over pay" morons. Happy Holidays everyone...
    If the team is 10 games below .500 in August, I'll gladly send over some of my significantly larger than 75k salary to help ease the pain.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    Haha. So true.

    I'm curious...Anyone upset at all the money we've wasted on our projects?

    Does anyone realize that we've spent $32.625m just on the contracts of Jason Jennings, Rich Harden, Scott Feldman (only tallying his extension), Roy Oswalt and Brandon Webb?

    How'd those projects work out? You satisfied going the "cheap" route on those players?

    That's right Rangers homers...nevermind the facts.
    We paid ARod $67mm, or more than double ALL of those players, to mash for the Yanks. Thats also a fact.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlequin018 View Post
    We paid ARod $67mm, or more than double ALL of those players, to mash for the Yanks. Thats also a fact.
    You do realize that ARod wasn't the problem on our team back then?

    And if you do and realize that it was because that ownership group failed to put other good players around him, then chose to cut their losses on a heck of a player, then it goes without saying that neither ARod, nor his contract was the real issue here in Arlington in the early 2000's, but rather...the ownership making a different set of idiotic mistakes.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  7. #22
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    Correct Stipe.. The real Albatross around the neck of this organization was the Faux Billionaire himself. Mr. Tom F'n Hicks and his unique ability to drive every business or deal into the ground that he had the displeasure of touching over the last 20 years of his life. One more thing Mr. Hicks - why dont you move into an estate more indicative of your actual wealth and stop waisting so much precious fresh water on your ****ing 40 acre lawn. I am sure his water bill was sucking potential payroll out of the Rangers in the early Otts.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by stipe1280 View Post
    You do realize that ARod wasn't the problem on our team back then?

    And if you do and realize that it was because that ownership group failed to put other good players around him, then chose to cut their losses on a heck of a player, then it goes without saying that neither ARod, nor his contract was the real issue here in Arlington in the early 2000's, but rather...the ownership making a different set of idiotic mistakes.
    I agree with you, but you can't deny that there's a payroll budget number that the team simply won't go over as they have to operate as a business. I don't know what that number is but making payments to the Yankees would take a chunk out of that budget that could be used to sign another player. If Hamilton signs for $25mm and then runs headfirst into a wall in the outfield or smokes crack with Wash, that money still has to paid to him and not another player that might be a safer bet. I guess my real issue this season is not the spending, but the players that are available to spend on. Out of all of the players the team missed out on, I won't lose any sleep over Hamilton and Greinke. Prince Fielder on the other hand...

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlequin018 View Post
    I agree with you, but you can't deny that there's a payroll budget number that the team simply won't go over as they have to operate as a business. I don't know what that number is but making payments to the Yankees would take a chunk out of that budget that could be used to sign another player. If Hamilton signs for $25mm and then runs headfirst into a wall in the outfield or smokes crack with Wash, that money still has to paid to him and not another player that might be a safer bet. I guess my real issue this season is not the spending, but the players that are available to spend on. Out of all of the players the team missed out on, I won't lose any sleep over Hamilton and Greinke. Prince Fielder on the other hand...
    Your view is starting to make sense to me. I don't totally agree, but I now understand it.

    Honestly, I agree that spending on the right kind of players is important (I had thought you simply wanted to not spend) and we'll always probably argue which players we like/don't like around here.

    I will say, though, that if you're looking for a sure bet...you'll never find one. It's the same in life. And...sometimes you have to take big risks to get the big reward.

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  10. #25
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    Can we agree that 150 million payroll for this team which exceeds 3 million in attendance and is now a big boy in the TV contract game is doable and still facilitates some degree of operating profit for the ownership group? I refuse to believe that mid 100's payroll will in any way be a burden to our Oil and Gas ownership duo. Having said that does anyone (Stipe, Skiz, Harlequin et al) have an estimate of where we may land on team payroll in 2013 realizing there could still be a deal or 2 done in the winter??

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Can we agree that 150 million payroll for this team which exceeds 3 million in attendance and is now a big boy in the TV contract game is doable and still facilitates some degree of operating profit for the ownership group? I refuse to believe that mid 100's payroll will in any way be a burden to our Oil and Gas ownership duo. Having said that does anyone (Stipe, Skiz, Harlequin et al) have an estimate of where we may land on team payroll in 2013 realizing there could still be a deal or 2 done in the winter??
    I think that's something we can all agree on. I don't think most of us are advocating to not spend at all, but rather spend big wisely. I don't think we ever found out what the Rangers offer to Grienke was, but I know his insistence of an opt out clause after three years was probably a deal breaker for the Rangers.

    As for our ownership group getting rich on oil and gas, the gas side is hurting right now. Too much supply and not enough demand. Those poor guys are probably only making a fraction of what they used to.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDFan85 View Post
    I think that's something we can all agree on. I don't think most of us are advocating to not spend at all, but rather spend big wisely. I don't think we ever found out what the Rangers offer to Grienke was, but I know his insistence of an opt out clause after three years was probably a deal breaker for the Rangers.

    As for our ownership group getting rich on oil and gas, the gas side is hurting right now. Too much supply and not enough demand. Those poor guys are probably only making a fraction of what they used to.
    This is exactly my philosophy. I'm advocating not spending when there's nothing out there to spend money on WISELY. That will occasionally result in a reduced payroll. I don't think it takes a perennial $150mm payroll to be competitive.

    As far as ownership goes, I don't care what kind of profits they turn or how much tickets are. $50 to see a game is not a big deal to me and I still go see 20-30 games every year even though I live in Houston. They ownership group earned their money independently of me, they own the team because of their own hard work and they can operate it in whatever way they feel is necessary. Obviously I would be upset if the team was not competitive, but this is golden age of Ranger baseball. If they want to raise ticket prices by a couple of bucks and take that profit for themselves, go right ahead. Thats why its a business.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by harlequin018 View Post
    This is exactly my philosophy. I'm advocating not spending when there's nothing out there to spend money on WISELY. That will occasionally result in a reduced payroll. I don't think it takes a perennial $150mm payroll to be competitive.

    As far as ownership goes, I don't care what kind of profits they turn or how much tickets are. $50 to see a game is not a big deal to me and I still go see 20-30 games every year even though I live in Houston. They ownership group earned their money independently of me, they own the team because of their own hard work and they can operate it in whatever way they feel is necessary. Obviously I would be upset if the team was not competitive, but this is golden age of Ranger baseball. If they want to raise ticket prices by a couple of bucks and take that profit for themselves, go right ahead. Thats why its a business.
    On the bottom part, I don't blame them trying to run a business. But at the same time, sports isn't like your average business either. If the Rangers start free falling out of the elite teams in the league, the fans will stop showing up. This team doesn't exactly have a proven, loyal fan base. That will cut in to their profits and then you get in that situation where they still want to make a profit, so do they then cut payroll more? It's a slippery slope.

    Teams that try to win being cheap, even when successful, don't pull in good attendance numbers (see Tampa and Oakland). And while you can point out Tampa's stadium is in a horrible location and not that big of a market...Oakland on the other hand has no excuse. They are in a top 6 media market in the US (behind: NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly and DFW). Even as they stormed up the standings and overtook us for first, they couldn't fill seats. They finished 27th in attendance of 30 teams...in a major media market.

    Now, I have a sincere question for you. You say there's nothing to spend wisely on right now, and that's fine, while I may disagree in terms of Greinke, I also understand the counterarguments. So if there's nothing to spend wisely on, what is coming up in the future that is a better investment? Is there a particular player you have your eye on that you think will make it to free agency? If we didn't want Lee, Fielder or Greinke over the last three years (all three of which filled notable needs for us)...when exactly do you think the time to spend is and what player?
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by zookman65 View Post
    Can we agree that 150 million payroll for this team which exceeds 3 million in attendance and is now a big boy in the TV contract game is doable and still facilitates some degree of operating profit for the ownership group? I refuse to believe that mid 100's payroll will in any way be a burden to our Oil and Gas ownership duo. Having said that does anyone (Stipe, Skiz, Harlequin et al) have an estimate of where we may land on team payroll in 2013 realizing there could still be a deal or 2 done in the winter??
    If all my math adds up correctly, I believe we are currently sitting at $96m on the payroll. This is based off of Baseball Prospectus' numbers, minus the $6m we "saved" by trading Young + Soria's contract (which they didn't have listed). Keep in mind that Harrison and Murphy are both arbitration eligible though, so the numbers will go up with them as well.

    So...if you add in a couple more free agents (there aren't a lot of expensive ones we'll probably be in on) + a couple raises, we're probably looking at a budget of around $105-110m next year, give or take a few mil. We ended up at $127m last year, so we'll probably fall about $20m short of where we were last year budget-wise. Of course, the team might give Harrison a longterm deal and lock him up, which could push the budget up a bit more also.

    Of note...we'll be starting with a payroll of about $63m in 2014 according to Baseball Prospectus (adding in Soria's contract as well), which covers 8 players: Beltre, Kinsler, Darvish, Andrus, Holland, Martin, Nathan & Soria.

    Here's a good article on the payroll, by the way. Note, that it was written before we signed Pierzynski and Soria and before we lost out on Greinke and Hamilton:

    http://www.bbtia.com/home/2012/11/17...-counting.html

    Who needs Josh Hamilton when you can have this for $11m?

  15. #30
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    That was a really good article Stipe. Thanks for the link.

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