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  1. #46
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    Then you have to count pre-2010 Jason Bay.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  2. #47
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    Bay spend 1 year in the Mets system, the other 2 spend a lot more time that that.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna28 View Post
    He has problems recognizing breaking balls down, and he has some length in his swing which is the reason for the Ks. I like that he's trying to hit for some power because that has more value than slapping the ball around the park.
    What I see as his major problem is that he swings at everything. Now as I said in my original comments, this is overstated, but maybe the best man in the organization to help correct his lack of discipline is Hudgens. Yes, I am aware that the role of the hitting coach is usually overblown, but in the case of a player who seems to have this, as his major stumbling block, maybe Hudgens can work some magic with him.
    Last edited by METMANYAK; 12-22-2012 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Great analogy. Good job!
    LOL. Ty FoC. This needed a nice glib sarcastic retort.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldmantrash View Post
    Why can't we ever develop any good outfielders?

    The last guy as far as I can remember was Straw, that's crazy.
    Darryl
    Amos Otis
    Ken Singleton
    Kevin Mitchell
    Mookie Wilson
    Lee Mazzilli
    Lenny Dykstra
    Jeremy Burnitz
    Jay Payton?
    Preston Wilson
    Bruce Boiclaire

    I'd be curious to see which organization has the highest cumulative WAR for OFers signed (and played in their system for at least 3 years) in the past decade. Volunteers?
    Last edited by Dugmet; 12-22-2012 at 11:17 AM.
    John Maeda@johnmaeda

    Knowing the overall *shape* of an idea, argument, situation requires as many facts, models, opinions as you can take/make to see a whole.

  6. #51
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    So, do they start Flores in LF this year?

    He's close enough that he can fill one of the OF spots in the coming years.
    Go Grab My Belt

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by METMANYAK View Post
    LOL. Ty FoC. This needed a nice glib sarcastic retort.
    I hate to break it to you but i was being serious. I thought it was a good analogies. Like Ordonez, den Dekker is a defensive genius who can't hit a lick. But he does have power. And maybe he proves me wrong and shows he can hit.

    Still, the whole premise of this thread was an assumption that he can't hit but that his fielding is so good fans won't mind.

    He'll have to hit. I agree with your point though that he should be given every chance in ST to win the position. But even then we have to proceed with caution since ST is rarely indicative of what we can expect during the reg season.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    So, do they start Flores in LF this year?

    He's close enough that he can fill one of the OF spots in the coming years.
    I really want to see him get some OF innings in ST. Then again, I felt the same way about Daniel Murphy at second base in 2011 but every time I tuned in, there was Luis Castillo or Brad Emaus.

    I never understood that. THESE GAMES DO NOT COUNT!!!! Why not use them to address your biggest needs?
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Darryl
    Amos Otis
    Ken Singleton
    Kevin Mitchell
    Mookie Wilson
    Lee Mazzilli
    Lenny Dykstra
    Jeremy Burnitz
    Jay Payton?
    Preston Wilson
    Bruce Boiclaire

    I'd be curious to see which organization has the highest cumulative WAR for OFers signed (and played in their system for at least 3 years) in the past decade. Volunteers?
    How is Bruce Boisclaire on your list but not Cleon Jones?
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

  10. #55
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    i watched him play a few games last year in triple A and i have to say i wasnt impressed...i am still hoping he is going to pan out but i dont know if he's ready to be thrown to the wolves just yet...i would let him play one more year of minor league ball and bring him up at the end of the year

  11. #56
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    I seriously wonder if Juan Lagares isn't better than Den Dekker. I know I shouldn't trust defensive stats too much, but these guys were playing on the same team, and Lagares by the numbers was clearly making more plays out there in CF than Den Dekker. If you just go by minor league stats, Den Dekker's glove looks surprisingly marginal, not as good as Nieuwenhuis, while Lagares last year looks surprisingly awesome, easily the best of the three.

    Again, I don't trust these stats too much, but if this is a huge fluke, we should see it not repeat next year, right? Another way to look at it, if Lagres's glove is really becoming that good, then he didn't regress last year at all, he was just as good overall as 2011, despite hitting for much less average and almost no power.

  12. #57
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    I like Den Dekker but do not believe he is ready, start him @ AAA then bring him up midseason or so. Like I stated in another post we can sign Morgan and if Dekker is ready slide Morgan over to a corner spot.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I hate to break it to you but i was being serious. I thought it was a good analogies. Like Ordonez, den Dekker is a defensive genius who can't hit a lick. But he does have power. And maybe he proves me wrong and shows he can hit.

    Still, the whole premise of this thread was an assumption that he can't hit but that his fielding is so good fans won't mind.

    He'll have to hit. I agree with your point though that he should be given every chance in ST to win the position. But even then we have to proceed with caution since ST is rarely indicative of what we can expect during the reg season.
    First of all. I started this thread,(go read it)and I never intonated that he couldn't hit, in fact I know he can. I've seen him in person a few times, I've seen him on tape many times and I believe the guys a player, reminds me of Dykstra, his problem is, he never saw a pitch he didn't like. As far as comparing him to Ordonez, that is absurd, Ordonez was a defender at the plate, DD is a hacker, Ordonez had no Power DD has good power. Here are some numbers. 2011 .274 17hr 68rbi 32doubles 11triples 24sb, 2012 .265 17hr 76rbi 31doubles 8triples 21sb. So I don't understand this notion that he can't hit, his strikeouts are his problem, bad plate discipline, but that can be worked on. As far as a comparison to Rey Ordonez? Really?
    Last edited by METMANYAK; 12-23-2012 at 12:20 PM.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by METMANYAK View Post
    First of all. I started this thread,(go read it)and I never intonated that he couldn't hit, in fact I know he can. I've seen him in person a few times, I've seen him on tape many times and I believe the guys a player, reminds me of Dykstra, his problem is, he never saw a pitch he didn't like. As far as comparing him to Ordonez, that is absurd, Ordonez was a defender at the plate, DD is a hacker, Ordonez had no Power DD has good power. Here are some numbers. 2011 .274 17hr 68rbi 32doubles 11triples 24sb, 2012 .265 17hr 76rbi 31doubles 8triples 21sb. So I don't understand this notion that he can't hit, his strikeouts are his problem, bad plate discipline, but that can be worked on. As far as a comparison to Rey Ordonez? Really?
    LOL, tis the season for apologies so I guess it's somewhat appropriate. The comment I was referring to -- that his defense was so good it wont matter whether he'll hit -- was from RIO, not you. Facepalm well deserved.

    But I still have concerns about whether he'll be able to hit in the higher levels, despite the numbers you've shown. Ray Ordonez is obviously a stretch but not in the sense that dD is a great defensive player who MAY be a liability offensively. Ordonez was also a hacker, albeit without the power.

    But we'll see.
    "Mr. Martin Tanner, Baritone, of Dayton, Ohio made his Town Hall debut last night. He came well prepared, but unfortunately his presentation was not up to contemporary professional standards. His voice lacks the range of tonal color necessary to make it consistently interesting. Full time consideration of another endeavor might be in order."

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