Marte Trade: No More Square Pegs?

[YoungStuna28]

If arm, speed, and hitting were enough, then Jordanny Valdespin would have been a good SS prospect.

His arm isn't that good, and his power is above his fielding.

Ian Desmond is a good example of having the raw SS tools and becoming a good fielder over time.

[fanofclendennon]

But doubt it. Look at this video and the hitch in his swing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kfvhw5lY4s

You can tell nothing of the sort from that video.

[Claymation]

They certainly didn't stick to that philosphy in last year draft. Taking a light hitting SS and 6 more SS just like him the same draft.

Okay. Let’s change gears for a moment. My team has an All-Star shortstop. They also have a couple decent shortstop prospects in the minors. And then they went out and drafted yet another shortstop in the first round of the most recent draft! What are they thinking?!? Do they have a clue?

Dear Disgruntled in Draftville; Yes, they do have a clue and they are thinking that they want to acquire the best collection of talent possible.

Then why so many shortstops?

I just told you! They want to acquire the best collection of talent possible! Just because a player is a shortstop in the minors does not mean he will play there in the Majors. And just because a player is drafted as a shortstop does not mean he will play there even in the minors, let alone if he ever makes it to the big leagues. Many, many, many major league players that are not shortstops were one day shortstops either in the minors, in college or in high school.

Think of it this way, when you have a high schooler with legitimate hopes of entertaining a professional career, he’s going to be the best athlete on his team. And where do the best athletes play? Shortstop. It does not mean he will remain at shortstop at a more competitive level. For when he gets to the next level (either the minors or college) he’ll be competing against several other guys who were also high school shortstops. And they can’t all continue to play shortstop. The ones who do remain at shortstop in the minors may not even continue to stay there while they advance through the system.

It’s possible for a team to draft 5 shortstops among their first 10 selections, only truly anticipating that perhaps 2 of them will continue to play the position a couple seasons later. The others will move to other positions.

Most major league second basemen were minor league shortstops. Shortstops can grow out of their position and move to third base. A great majority of young shortstops are weeded out and moved to the outfield where fielding and arm strength are not as highly valued. Only the best remain.

Anyway, in general, shortstops are good athletes with quality tools. Why not try to accumulate as many good athletes with quality tools at positions all over the field?

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[YoungStuna28]

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I don't agree with the scouting on tools at all. If speed was the least important tool for RF, then why can't Duda play there? Arm is the least important tool for a CF? lol

Fielding is important and all, but if you can't get to the ball or do anything once you got it, what good is it?

[Claymation]

I don't agree with the scouting on tools at all. If speed was the least important tool for RF, then while can't Duda play there? Arm is the least important tool for a CF? lol

Fielding is important and all, but if you can't get to the ball or do anything once you got it, what good is it?

A CF's throw to 2nd is a short one, as is there throw to 3rd. Is a CF speed less important than his Arm? That's a lol.

[Toon88]

When judging a SS these are the tools in the order of which he should be critiqued.
Shortstop
1. Fielding
2. Arm
3. Hitting
4. Speed
5. Power

Hello Bud Harrelson
1) Hitting (think TT)
2) Fielding
3) Power
4) Speed

[YoungStuna28]

A CF's throw to 2nd is a short one, as is there throw to 3rd. Is a CF speed less important than his Arm? That's a lol.

How about CF's throw from deep in the gap of right center? That's far. There is a reason why guys like Juan Pierre fail as CF, they don't have the arm necessary for the position. My coach for instance rarely played me in CF because while I was really fast and could make plays, I couldn't throw very far.

You don't have to be a great fielder to be a great outfielder. Bryce Harper has raw tools and makes errors, but he's a great centerfielder because he has speed to cover ground and has a cannon arm.

[Claymation]

Hello Bud Harrelson
1) Hitting (think TT)
2) Fielding
3) Power
4) Speed

If he has a weak arm he'll be moved to 2nd.

[Claymation]

How about CF's throw from deep in the gap of right center? That's far. There is a reason why guys like Juan Pierre fail as CF, they don't have the arm necessary for the position. My coach for instance rarely played me in CF because while I was really fast and could make plays, I couldn't throw very far.

You don't have to be a great fielder to be a great outfielder. Bryce Harper has raw tools and makes errors, but he's a great centerfielder because he has speed to cover ground and has a cannon arm.

Of the 5 tools, which one is the most important for CFer?

[YoungStuna28]

Of the 5 tools, which one is the most important for CFer?

Speed then arm IMO. I think of Carlos Gomez immediately.

[METMANYAK]

But doubt it. Look at this video and the hitch in his swing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Kfvhw5lY4s

He does have a little hitch but he gets his hands in a good spot and has a relatively short swing, the problem i see is he has a big uppercut, looks like a guy who will strike out alot.

[METMANYAK]

I disagree. I'd rank arm first, speed second, hitting third, fielding fourth, and power last.

What good is it to be a great fielder if you aren't fast/agile enough to get to many balls? Arm is important for plays in the hole between 3B and 2B.

I'll take the average fielding SS with great range and arm over the great fielding SS with a good arm and average range or below.

What good is a great arm if you can't field the ball?

[acerimusdux]

How about CF's throw from deep in the gap of right center? That's far. There is a reason why guys like Juan Pierre fail as CF, they don't have the arm necessary for the position.

Juan Pierre was a good CF. He played 10,000 innings in CF, with a positive UZR and only slightly negative DRS for his career.

And on those gappers, the infielder will generally come out to shorten the throw. You don't even have to get it to 2B, the second baseman will be in shallow right field to receive the throw.

Pitching aside, arm is generally the least important tool. It's only really needed for CA, 3B and SS, then to some extent RF. Even in RF though, not really more important than the other 4 tools.

[SILVER SEAVER]

When judging a SS these are the tools in the order of which he should be critiqued.
Shortstop
1. Fielding
2. Arm
3. Hitting
4. Speed
5. Power

Sounds alot like that Jose Reyes fella.

[YoungStuna28]

Juan Pierre was a good CF. He played 10,000 innings in CF, with a positive UZR and only slightly negative DRS for his career.

And on those gappers, the infielder will generally come out to shorten the throw. You don't even have to get it to 2B, the second baseman will be in shallow right field to receive the throw.

Pitching aside, arm is generally the least important tool. It's only really needed for CA, 3B and SS, then to some extent RF. Even in RF though, not really more important than the other 4 tools.

His dWAR on BR was negative too. I side with 2 of the 3 defensive metrics so I don't agree that he was a good CF. A good arm might not be the most important, but I think it makes a big difference if you have a cannon.