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  1. #61
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    Dude, i dislike kobe but the " he was a back up" **** is absolutely stupid.

    he entered the league from H.S none other top 10 ever players did so until lebron and lebrone ntered into a franchise that was ****, so yes he started, but kobe entered a team that had winning as an objective..
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcrooner View Post
    Dude, i dislike kobe but the " he was a back up" **** is absolutely stupid.

    he entered the league from H.S none other top 10 ever players did so until lebron and lebrone ntered into a franchise that was ****, so yes he started, but kobe entered a team that had winning as an objective..

    I agree with you that the "he was a back up" arguement is GREATLY flawed... lots of great players needed a few years to develop.

    That said, there were several guys who came straight from highschool who were able to play at high level immediately. Amare for one, he won ROY. LBJ as you mentioned, Dwight had a solid rookie year. Garnett was a starter by the end of his first season. And Moses Malone averaged almost 20/15 coming straight out of highschool. When Kobe came into the league, he was NOT NBA ready. Amare, and Moses and LBJ would have all been starting on that Lakers roster with the level they played at as rookies if they were in Kobe's place.
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  3. #63
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    dumbest title ever...why do we D kobe bryant? lol because if you dont D him he's going to score 150

  4. #64
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    when a knicks fan makes a thread asking people why they dont like Melo...all the nets, heat, lakers, sixers, and just about every other teams trolls (even the lowly timberwolves trolls such as hawkeye and a couple others) come out of the woodworks to troll

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonJohnHorn View Post
    I agree with you that the "he was a back up" arguement is GREATLY flawed... lots of great players needed a few years to develop.

    That said, there were several guys who came straight from highschool who were able to play at high level immediately. Amare for one, he won ROY. LBJ as you mentioned, Dwight had a solid rookie year. Garnett was a starter by the end of his first season. And Moses Malone averaged almost 20/15 coming straight out of highschool. When Kobe came into the league, he was NOT NBA ready. Amare, and Moses and LBJ would have all been starting on that Lakers roster with the level they played at as rookies if they were in Kobe's place.
    What makes you think Kobe wasn't NBA ready? I personally have teen Kobe above LeBron at the same stage of his career.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Maybe he means relative to the team MJ has around him? Nah, maybe hes talking about how rampant expansion diluted the 90's talent base. George Karl has talked about this very theory before. Its not so ridiculous.
    I agree that the league on a whole was diluted. I mean, you look at team rankings in the 80s, losing teams generally won more games. You could be last in your division and still come away with 42 wins (though more likely in the 20s or 30s). 83/84 for example, the worst team in the league won 26 games, and I'd be willing to bet that there will be 6 teams with worse records than that this season alone. The six season leading up the the first expansion draft of Jordan's era, only one team failed to crack twenty win (the Clippers, they failed to do it twice). You look at that compared to today? The NBA will have as many teams fail to crack 20 wins in one season as the entire league for six seasons leading up to the Charlotte/Miami expansion season.

    But the first year Jordan won it all, no team won less than 20 games that year. And while the really bad teams were a lot worse than the good teams say, five years previous, the good team were still really good teams.

    The Pistons that Jordna played... three finals apperances in a row. The Lakers they had to beat had Magic Johnson and a great cast featuring AC Green, Vlade and Worthy among other. That Portland team Jordan had to beat in 92 would have easily won the NBA championship last season. And the Suns? That was an amazing roster with SO many all-stars. Not to mention the Knicks teams that Jordan had to go through like eveyr season in the post season. And the Pacers, and Magic with shaq, and Stockton and Malone. Yes. I agree, in the regular season, teams had a softer schedule than did teams in the 80's before the rapid expansion. But the teams in the playoffs, the teams Jordan had to beat, they were AMAZING teams.

    That said... the other side of the argument still stands. Kobe himself has played in a watered down league. The first year Kobe won it all, there were three teams in the league that failed to win 20 games, and two of them were in his division. The following season there were another 3 teams that failed to win 20 games or more. The third year they won they played the NEts in the finals, one of the worst rosters to ever make the NBA finals (they were swept 4-0).

    So anybody that says Jordan played against inferior talent, needs to first contexualize what they are saying, because while the league was watered down a little, the playoff teams were still very good and Jordan had to beat some of the most impressive rosters the league has ever seen in what I see as the goldenage of the league. Yes, the Hornets and T-Wolves and Clippers and Kings were AWFUL, but they werent the teams Jordan beat to win it. Yes, there was more parity in the league in the 80's. But that said, there was more parity in the 90's than there is today. So to suggest that Jordan played inferior players while inversely implying that Kobe played against a higher level of talent is just wrong. Teams have been setting record lows for wins these past few seasons, and the east until 2008 (save for the Detroit Pistons) had no real contenders for a long time. The Heat had a small window with Shaq/Wade. But look at the East today. With a healthy Rose in Chi-town there are three or four teams that could contend where as from 99-08, there was never really more than one team who had the true potential to win it all in the east, and in most seasons there wasn't even one team.

    Jordan won against better players than Kobe won against. The best teams Kobe played against were the Spurs and the Celtics and he lost to both. There are a great many teams Jordan never lost against.
    Last edited by JasonJohnHorn; 12-19-2012 at 01:16 PM.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    What makes you think Kobe wasn't NBA ready? I personally have teen Kobe above LeBron at the same stage of his career.
    Maybe i'm not interpreting well what you're saying.

    Are you saying that when both players became pro, Kobe was a better player than Lebron?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by raiderposting View Post
    Because Gasol was MVP of the two finals he won without shaq. Kobe was always number 2. He may go down in the 20-25 range in the all time best for me, but thats being nice. He's an inefficient chucker who has always been overrated on D.

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  9. #69
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    It's because he ticked some people off when he left HS and go straight to the NBA when everyone was saying that he wasn't ready.


    Also, when he got to the NBA, he was being compared to Michael (WHILE Michael was still in the league in his last 2 yrs with the Bulls in 96-97 and 97-98), and people thought it was sacrilegious and downright wrong and from that point on, have kept that hatred and disdain for him close to their hearts. Occurrences that happened later on like the rape case, losing in 2 finals, Shaq leaving, Phil leaving etc. just gave those same people more fuel and ammunition, but their initial disdain emanated from the MJ comparisons that they thought was sacrilegious.


    That basically sums it up.

  10. #70
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    Oh, and the fact that he was a backup singer to Eddie Jones, a backup guard turned starter via the LA Media Hype and that he was going to be the same player that he was his first 3 yrs in the league since that is the gold standard. Not SHAQ/AI/BRON/MJ/MAGIC ever had to start off the bench in their careers.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faneik View Post
    Maybe i'm not interpreting well what you're saying.

    Are you saying that when both players became pro, Kobe was a better player than Lebron?
    Yes as teens at the same age
    Last edited by Chronz; 12-19-2012 at 01:27 PM.
    Yo Kobe, get at me bro, we'd have a good time, man

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoffdollas60 View Post
    Suck dick u Hating ***** *** motha ****ing dick suckin fagget ****
    Guess who's not gonna make it to 18 posts...

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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jericho View Post
    What kobe fans don't get is that some of us don't like him for the person he is and for the stuff he has done that doesn't mean we don't respect his game

    Some of you guys are just to trigger happy in using the word hater instead of using rational thinking
    Actually, many don't respect his game. They try to discredit him by calling him an inefficient chucker and team cancer, someone who stunts others' growth, bash his PER, Win Shares, TS%, say his defense was "ALWAYS" overrated, and that he is OVERRATED in general. That's 85% of PSD's view on Kobe's game outside of Lakers fans.

  14. #74
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    I respect Kobe. He has done a lot through his Career and I could never hate on him
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by amos1er View Post
    IMO it's because he plays for the Lakers. If the best player since Jordan played for a small market team, people would like them better. People in society these days are just haters for some reason, meaning they just don't like winners for the most part, especially when they play for the team that has won the most titles in the past 30 years.
    Thats why people hate Kobe, because of his fans stupid statements.

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