Steve young

[ccugrad1]

Agree 100%. I'm really sick of the "lack of talent" argument. We've seen way too many errant throws, poor decisions, and bonehead plays that have nothing to do with talent. If he would have made good decisions and accurate throws, these conversations would not be taking place. We went into the season with Homes, Kerley, Hill, Keller & Cumberland. Certainly not outstanding, but definitely guys who can make plays with the right QB behind center. Match Brady, Rodgers or Peyton up with these guys, and they would put up familiar numbers. Are Peyton's receivers anything special? Rodgers has been throwing the ball to his 3rd & 4th WR all year. How would Jones & Cobb have faired if they were on the Jets this year?

You are kidding right? You are going to even THINK of comparing Peyton and Aaron Rodgers receivers to ours? Jones and Cobb my friend would be our #1 and #2 WR's and Thomas and Decker would be as well. Thomas alone is better than Kerley, Hill, Schellins, and Gates combined!

All I can say to you my friend when you try and compare Green Bay and Denver's WR's to ours is

All you need to do is look at Braylon Edwards to see how bad our WR's are: Guy comes in late Wednesday, has first practice Thursday in new offense and is STARTING Monday Night and played the 2nd most snaps behind Jeremy Kerley.

[scopepts]

You are kidding right? You are going to even THINK of comparing Peyton and Aaron Rodgers receivers to ours? Jones and Cobb my friend would be our #1 and #2 WR's and Thomas and Decker would be as well. Thomas alone is better than Kerley, Hill, Schellins, and Gates combined!

All I can say to you my friend when you try and compare Green Bay and Denver's WR's to ours is

All you need to do is look at Braylon Edwards to see how bad our WR's are: Guy comes in late Wednesday, has first practice Thursday in new offense and is STARTING Monday Night and played the 2nd most snaps behind Jeremy Kerley.

Comparing anything to our WR's is a joke even though braylon played pretty well on monday. But he is rite about the weapons excuse, its no longer valid for me. If McElroy comes in and out performs sanchez's numbers (isnt hard to do) then that excuse flys out the window.

[nyjflightboy#10]

Does anyone on this site thinks it's remotely possible that we have a bad QB and bad receivers? I'm willing to bet that's the case with this team.

[scopepts]

Does anyone on this site thinks it's remotely possible that we have a bad QB and bad receivers? I'm willing to bet that's the case with this team.

I think we have a bad QB, look at arizona they have awesome Wr's and still cant get anything done. Sanchez is and always has been the problem its a shame we realized it now.

[ccugrad1]

Does anyone on this site thinks it's remotely possible that we have a bad QB and bad receivers? I'm willing to bet that's the case with this team.

I can agree with that. When I look around the rest of the NFL, I just see stuff that is SO MUCH better than what I see with the NY Jets, not just at the QB position. I mean come on people, Mardy Gilyard? Chaz Schillens? Konrad Reuland? Clyde Gates? Bilal Powell? Jeff Cumberland?

And with scopepts, take Fitzgerald off Arizona and they are no better than we are offensively in terms of players. Arizona's WR aren't awesome, outside of Fitzgerald, unless you are watching a different Arizona team.

[scopepts]

I can agree with that. When I look around the rest of the NFL, I just see stuff that is SO MUCH better than what I see with the NY Jets, not just at the QB position. I mean come on people, Mardy Gilyard? Chaz Schillens? Konrad Reuland? Clyde Gates? Bilal Powell? Jeff Cumberland?

And with scopepts, take Fitzgerald off Arizona and they are no better than we are offensively in terms of players. Arizona's WR aren't awesome, outside of Fitzgerald, unless you are watching a different Arizona team.

Problem is they are better than us with Fitzgerald, and they have a stud number two in that first rounder from ND. Don't start that Sanchez is the root of our problems there's no question. Weapons can't make you take care of the football and read defenses. I'm so sick of hearing that, and I'm willing to bet that a good QB would make Chaz and Clyde gates much better. Quit it CCU it's getting old, Sanchez doesn't deserve any credit or sorrow.

[nyjflightboy#10]

I think we have a bad QB, look at arizona they have awesome Wr's and still cant get anything done. Sanchez is and always has been the problem its a shame we realized it now.

If we had a legit #1 WR. Would it help Sanchez? Of course. Would Sanchez have better stats? Perhaps. Would he make better decisions? Nope. Would we all of a sudden gain situational and pocket awareness? NO! Would he figure out when to throw the ball away or take a sack? Nah. Would all of a sudden become a real leader? NO! We would still probably be a bad offense.

I can agree with that. When I look around the rest of the NFL, I just see stuff that is SO MUCH better than what I see with the NY Jets, not just at the QB position. I mean come on people, Mardy Gilyard? Chaz Schillens? Konrad Reuland? Clyde Gates? Bilal Powell? Jeff Cumberland?

And with scopepts, take Fitzgerald off Arizona and they are no better than we are offensively in terms of players. Arizona's WR aren't awesome, outside of Fitzgerald, unless you are watching a different Arizona team.

If we had a top 5 QB would we be a better team? Perhaps slightly. Less turnovers for sure. Would our o-line magically protect better? Probably not. Would they be able to open up more whole for the running game? Doubt it.

Would our WR's get more open? Not a chance. Would they drop less passes? Maybe a few.

Chances are we would still be a poor offensive team. Point is, you don't have an offense that is THIS bad. Like historically bad. Like can barely put up 10 points bad if just 1 person or a few people were the problem.

The offense this season is an organizational issue. It starts at the top. With Woody, Tanny and Rex. Woody and his obsession with Tebow. Tanny for not improving the roster. Rex for being ignorant to anything offense.

There seems to no cohesion on the direction and plan for this franchise. And it showed after the Arizona game when some in the organization wanted Sanchez to start, others wanted Gmac, someone probably wanted Tebow.

And should take some heat too. All season long it looked like the Jets were lost on offense. The Tebow package usually caused confusion and resulted in burning timeouts. We would disrupt Mark's rhythm and put in Tebow after Mark made a nice pass or two. They had no identity all season. They never established anything that they did well.

And the players suck.

[scopepts]

If we had a legit #1 WR. Would it help Sanchez? Of course. Would Sanchez have better stats? Perhaps. Would he make better decisions? Nope. Would we all of a sudden gain situational and pocket awareness? NO! Would he figure out when to throw the ball away or take a sack? Nah. Would all of a sudden become a real leader? NO! We would still probably be a bad offense.



If we had a top 5 QB would we be a better team? Perhaps slightly. Less turnovers for sure. Would our o-line magically protect better? Probably not. Would they be able to open up more whole for the running game? Doubt it.

Would our WR's get more open? Not a chance. Would they drop less passes? Maybe a few.

Chances are we would still be a poor offensive team. Point is, you don't have an offense that is THIS bad. Like historically bad. Like can barely put up 10 points bad if just 1 person or a few people were the problem.

The offense this season is an organizational issue. It starts at the top. With Woody, Tanny and Rex. Woody and his obsession with Tebow. Tanny for not improving the roster. Rex for being ignorant to anything offense.

There seems to no cohesion on the direction and plan for this franchise. And it showed after the Arizona game when some in the organization wanted Sanchez to start, others wanted Gmac, someone probably wanted Tebow.

And should take some heat too. All season long it looked like the Jets were lost on offense. The Tebow package usually caused confusion and resulted in burning timeouts. We would disrupt Mark's rhythm and put in Tebow after Mark made a nice pass or two. They had no identity all season. They never established anything that they did well.

And the players suck.

Agreed to a certian extent, let me ask you this. Did you even think last year Denver's recievers were great? With tebow at QB they were an after thought, add a better QB (Peyton) and guys like Thomas and decker are superstars. Not compairing our recievers or QB to Denver I'm just saying that a better QB changes the whole dynamic of an offense.

Problems are not only Sanchez but replace him with a proven QB and our WRs would be much better. Cumberland especially.

[ccugrad1]

Agreed to a certian extent, let me ask you this. Did you even think last year Denver's recievers were great? With tebow at QB they were an after thought, add a better QB (Peyton) and guys like Thomas and decker are superstars. Not compairing our recievers or QB to Denver I'm just saying that a better QB changes the whole dynamic of an offense.

Problems are not only Sanchez but replace him with a proven QB and our WRs would be much better. Cumberland especially.

Let me ask you this: What is Sanchez doing this year that he hasn't done in Years 1-3? His completion percentage is still in the mid-50%; he still throws too many INT's and fumbles too much.

But if you look back at 2009-2011, the Jets were still scoring points-- 9 games of 22 points and higher in 2009; 12 games of 22 points and higher in 2010; 9 games in 2011 of 22 points and higher. This year you have 5, but you have 7 games where the offense is putting up 10 points or less.

I have been watching the NFL for a lot of years and I have NEVER seen an offense this inept or this bad scopepts. So what's the reason, especially if you consider that your QB is doing the exact same things as he was back when he came into the league.

[nyjflightboy#10]

Agreed to a certian extent, let me ask you this. Did you even think last year Denver's recievers were great? With tebow at QB they were an after thought, add a better QB (Peyton) and guys like Thomas and decker are superstars. Not compairing our recievers or QB to Denver I'm just saying that a better QB changes the whole dynamic of an offense.

Problems are not only Sanchez but replace him with a proven QB and our WRs would be much better. Cumberland especially.

Tebow is a whole other level of terrible. And it wasn't just him but also the system they ran once Tebow began started. And I don't know what they did when Orton was playing because nobody was paying attention to them. So did I think Thomas and Decker were as good as they seem now? Of course not. That's because the ball never came their way. Even when passes were intended for them. And honestly Thomas was a rookie coming out of Georgia Tech not knowing how to run routes. Sound familiar?

And Thomas and Decker and still head and shoulders betters than anything we have. A great QB like Peyton is going to make good receivers look great. I watch a lot of NFL redzone and I pay a lot of attention to Thomas especially because I drafted him this season. And dude gets open. He beats guys deep consistently.

You know what? I'm sure there's truth to what you said. Just not the best example. But all I'm trying to say is that it goes both ways. Mathew Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season. 5,000! Kid has a great arm but he isn't that great of a QB. If he doesn't have Megatron at his disposal you think he's coming close to those numbers?

[nyjflightboy#10]

Let me ask you this: What is Sanchez doing this year that he hasn't done in Years 1-3? His completion percentage is still in the mid-50%; he still throws too many INT's and fumbles too much.

But if you look back at 2009-2011, the Jets were still scoring points-- 9 games of 22 points and higher in 2009; 12 games of 22 points and higher in 2010; 9 games in 2011 of 22 points and higher. This year you have 5, but you have 7 games where the offense is putting up 10 points or less.

I have been watching the NFL for a lot of years and I have NEVER seen an offense this inept or this bad scopepts. So what's the reason, especially if you consider that your QB is doing the exact same things as he was back when he came into the league.

That is a bit of an issue don't you think? I know that wasn't your point. I see your point and I get it. But still. Sanchez is awful.

[scopepts]

Let me ask you this: What is Sanchez doing this year that he hasn't done in Years 1-3? His completion percentage is still in the mid-50%; he still throws too many INT's and fumbles too much.

Yes exactly so why does the "weapons" excuse work here? That was the initial argument and you answered your own question. Better weapons then less experience and still throws the same completion percentage....

But if you look back at 2009-2011, the Jets were still scoring points-- 9 games of 22 points and higher in 2009; 12 games of 22 points and higher in 2010; 9 games in 2011 of 22 points and higher. This year you have 5, but you have 7 games where the offense is putting up 10 points or less.

^Easy we had a dependable running game, Thomas Jones with Greene & LT and greene.... This year greene and powell who didnt get up to par untill like two weeks ago.

I have been watching the NFL for a lot of years and I have NEVER seen an offense this inept or this bad scopepts. So what's the reason, especially if you consider that your QB is doing the exact same things as he was back when he came into the league.

Im not arguing for sanchez at all, im actually doing quite the opposite. Theres no more excuse for him and the weapons non sense, holds no water (that was the initial argument). I also made a point that a better QB makes all the difference. Put any top ten QB in here and they would make a big difference

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See above

[scopepts]

Tebow is a whole other level of terrible. And it wasn't just him but also the system they ran once Tebow began started. And I don't know what they did when Orton was playing because nobody was paying attention to them. So did I think Thomas and Decker were as good as they seem now? Of course not. That's because the ball never came their way. Even when passes were intended for them. And honestly Thomas was a rookie coming out of Georgia Tech not knowing how to run routes. Sound familiar?

And Thomas and Decker and still head and shoulders betters than anything we have. A great QB like Peyton is going to make good receivers look great. I watch a lot of NFL redzone and I pay a lot of attention to Thomas especially because I drafted him this season. And dude gets open. He beats guys deep consistently.

You know what? I'm sure there's truth to what you said. Just not the best example. But all I'm trying to say is that it goes both ways. Mathew Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last season. 5,000! Kid has a great arm but he isn't that great of a QB. If he doesn't have Megatron at his disposal you think he's coming close to those numbers?

But thats what im saying a good QB will make jeremy Kerley even better, or a Chaz thats been invisible, appear! And Stafford will and always will be head and shoulders better than sanchez. Even without megatron he would still be good.

[nyjflightboy#10]

But thats what im saying a good QB will make jeremy Kerley even better, or a Chaz thats been invisible, appear! And Stafford will and always will be head and shoulders better than sanchez. Even without megatron he would still be good.

Yes I agree. I'm not even debating those points. I'm just trying to say that there's another side to this. Again, you can't have an offense with this kind of ineptitude because of the performance of one guy. This one of the worst offenses I've ever seen. Yes, that one guy is the most important part of the unit but if he was the only problem we wouldn't look so bad.

Look, I am in no way defending Sanchez. I've been done with that for a while. I want him gone. Make no mistake about it. But with this particular team, our struggles go way beyond just Mark. It's much deeper than if we replace him with a better QB then we will be better.

It's got to be a change in philosophy throughout the organization. I guarantee any QB we drafted in 2009 would have failed here under the circumstances. Everything the Jets have done since they drafted Sanchez is exactly what you don't do to groom a franchise QB.

[scopepts]

Yes I agree. I'm not even debating those points. I'm just trying to say that there's another side to this. Again, you can't have an offense with this kind of ineptitude because of the performance of one guy. This one of the worst offenses I've ever seen. Yes, that one guy is the most important part of the unit but if he was the only problem we wouldn't look so bad.

Look, I am in no way defending Sanchez. I've been done with that for a while. I want him gone. Make no mistake about it. But with this particular team, our struggles go way beyond just Mark. It's much deeper than if we replace him with a better QB then we will be better.

It's got to be a change in philosophy throughout the organization. I guarantee any QB we drafted in 2009 would have failed here under the circumstances. Everything the Jets have done since they drafted Sanchez is exactly what you don't do to groom a franchise QB.

I agree totally I think a part of it falls on Sparano and Cavanaugh.