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  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
    wow really?

    I'm looking at what the Jays gave up to acquire all the players we received from both trades.

    Jays gave up a bunch of high-ranking, unproven specs for a **** load of proven, high-calibre veterans. That's why the Jays win. It doesn't matter what we gave up to the Mets because the overall haul we received was far greater than what we lost.
    Generalizations are a great way to approach evaluating trades. "Team X gave up prospects, Team Y gave up a veteran... therefore team X wins."

    Also, if you need to group the Marlins trade into the one with the Mets to make it acceptable, shouldn't that indicate to you that perhaps the trade with the Mets wasn't as even as you'd like it to be?

  2. #407
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    Rhethorical but it all depends on what the Blue Jays accomplish in the next 3-4 years and what the prospects the Jays gave turn into to.

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    Generalizations are a great way to approach evaluating trades. "Team X gave up prospects, Team Y gave up a veteran... therefore team X wins."

    Also, if you need to group the Marlins trade into the one with the Mets to make it acceptable, shouldn't that indicate to you that perhaps the trade with the Mets wasn't as even as you'd like it to be?
    Blue Jays are going for the World Series NOW. Having a Cy Young winning pitcher in your MLB rotation trumps keeping a spec in the minors or even bringing him up to learn the ropes. Why does it matter if we lose a couple of specs especially if we already have a fairly deep farm? TDA wasn't a Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. He projects to be a decent hitting catcher. Big f'ing whoop.

    Cy Young award winning pitcher > unproven spec(unless their last name is Strasburg, Harper or Trout.) This is especially true when your team is trying to win right away.

    Mets got what they wanted. Jays got what they wanted.
    Even though it wasn't what you wanted.
    Last edited by Lifted; 01-24-2013 at 12:44 AM.

  4. #409
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    ^ you don't have a fairly deep farm.

  5. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
    Blue Jays are going for the World Series NOW. Having a Cy Young winning pitcher in your MLB rotation trumps keeping a spec in the minors or even bringing him up to learn the ropes. Why does it matter if we lose a couple of specs especially if we already have a fairly deep farm? TDA wasn't a Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. He projects to be a decent hitting catcher. Big f'ing whoop.

    Cy Young award winning pitcher > unproven spec(unless their last name is Strasburg, Harper or Trout.) This is especially true when your team is trying to win right away.

    Mets got what they wanted. Jays got what they wanted.
    Even though it wasn't what you wanted.
    TDA was projected to be an all star caliber catcher. Decent hitting catcher is selling low, big time.

  6. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    ^ you don't have a fairly deep farm.
    Yeah, its pretty depleted after all the trades, but AA has a couple years to restock the farm, and I trust he will do just that.

  7. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    ^ you don't have a fairly deep farm.
    Still have Sanchez, Davis, Norris, Stroman, Osuna. Not really highly ranked but still solid prospects.
    Drabek and Hutchison when they come back from injury.
    We also have a few young guys who have MLB experience in AAA this season like Jeffress, Gose, Sierra, Cooper.
    We're not as deep as we used to be, but we're not in a terrible position.

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
    Still have Sanchez, Davis, Norris, Stroman, Osuna. Not really highly ranked but still solid prospects.
    Drabek and Hutchison when they come back from injury.
    We also have a few young guys who have MLB experience in AAA this season like Jeffress, Gose, Sierra, Cooper.
    We're not as deep as we used to be, but we're not in a terrible position.
    AA is as good as anyone at assembling assets, and he has done a great job in the time he has been in Toronto no question.

    But the farm is rather weak and not deep at all.

    It's a ton of C+ caliber prospects.

    Sickels 2013 report only has 7 B caliber prospects, 3 of which are B- and no A's, and then 12 C+ caliber prospects.

    That's rather weak when compared to the rest of the farm systems in baseball.

    Outside of a few young arms, there isn't much to be excited about right now in the Jays system.

    I'd say it's a bottom 10 system as of today and worst in the AL East, but AA will fix that over the next two years again.

  9. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
    Blue Jays are going for the World Series NOW. Having a Cy Young winning pitcher in your MLB rotation trumps keeping a spec in the minors or even bringing him up to learn the ropes. Why does it matter if we lose a couple of specs especially if we already have a fairly deep farm? TDA wasn't a Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. He projects to be a decent hitting catcher. Big f'ing whoop.

    Cy Young award winning pitcher > unproven spec(unless their last name is Strasburg, Harper or Trout.) This is especially true when your team is trying to win right away.

    Mets got what they wanted. Jays got what they wanted.
    Even though it wasn't what you wanted.
    You're not even addressing anything that I've said. You're just bringing up the same tired argument filled with generalizations and false assumptions that got you into this debate in the first place.

  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    AA is as good as anyone at assembling assets, and he has done a great job in the time he has been in Toronto no question.

    But the farm is rather weak and not deep at all.

    It's a ton of C+ caliber prospects.

    Sickels 2013 report only has 7 B caliber prospects, 3 of which are B- and no A's, and then 12 C+ caliber prospects.

    That's rather weak when compared to the rest of the farm systems in baseball.

    Outside of a few young arms, there isn't much to be excited about right now in the Jays system.

    I'd say it's a bottom 10 system as of today and worst in the AL East, but AA will fix that over the next two years again.
    I totally agree with you about the Jays farm system. Most Toronto fans are really overrating what remains but that's because they all listen/watch the same broadcasts in Toronto which are run by the same company that owns the team and feeds them propaganda.

    On a side note, Drew Hutchison and Anthony Gose no longer qualify as prospects but they were considered in "Top 100" on most prospect lists I believe. They won't be on the team next year, they'll be back in the minors unless there's an injury again which rushes them in to replace someone again. That being said, I'm sure most teams in baseball have similar cases so I don't think it's a factor that really puts the Jays farm system ranked ahead of many others.

  11. #416
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    It would be fun to turn back time and go through the few days of this trade going through. Fun times.

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I totally agree with you about the Jays farm system. Most Toronto fans are really overrating what remains but that's because they all listen/watch the same broadcasts in Toronto which are run by the same company that owns the team and feeds them propaganda.

    On a side note, Drew Hutchison and Anthony Gose no longer qualify as prospects but they were considered in "Top 100" on most prospect lists I believe. They won't be on the team next year, they'll be back in the minors unless there's an injury again which rushes them in to replace someone again. That being said, I'm sure most teams in baseball have similar cases so I don't think it's a factor that really puts the Jays farm system ranked ahead of many others.
    You can have faith that AA will restock it to keep us competing.

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    I totally agree with you about the Jays farm system. Most Toronto fans are really overrating what remains but that's because they all listen/watch the same broadcasts in Toronto which are run by the same company that owns the team and feeds them propaganda.

    On a side note, Drew Hutchison and Anthony Gose no longer qualify as prospects but they were considered in "Top 100" on most prospect lists I believe. They won't be on the team next year, they'll be back in the minors unless there's an injury again which rushes them in to replace someone again. That being said, I'm sure most teams in baseball have similar cases so I don't think it's a factor that really puts the Jays farm system ranked ahead of many others.
    yup.


    You have good controllable assets and some good win-now caliber players too.

    The Jays are set to win now and in the future, but the farm system will need to be focused again starting now.

    They'll need a good draft this year to get it started. Otherwise the team will have some holes that will have to be addressed in 3-4 years. But they should be relevant for awhile.

    But the farm is weak at this moment. I doubt AA let's that continue for long.

  14. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeperMessiah View Post
    You can have faith that AA will restock it to keep us competing.
    I'm not a member of the organization, I'm just a fan of a team.

    As a fan, I've said all along I don't care if Anthopoulos trades prospects or any other player on the roster, I just wanted to see him get appropriate value in return and that's my issue with this trade, because I believe he overpaid.

  15. #420
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    As an observing fan, we have seen AA is pretty aggressive in this department. Overpaid today, but these prospects will always keep coming.

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