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  1. #16
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    just because it was a short term deal and only cost money doesn't mean it was good. these moves the Red Sox made aren't going to help the team win many more games than if they didn't have them. all it seemed to do is keep the Red Sox name relevant.
    it's times like this when the Red Sox are very unlikely to contend where I think it would have been better for them to give lesser known players a chance, players that maybe haven't been given a long chance to succeed. if these type of players fail, so what, the team wasn't going to contend anyway. so you would be talking about a very cheap player that could easily be replaced. but if it turns out this player/these players are successful it's a big win. could end up finding a player like the Jays did with Jose Bautista or the Nationals did with Michael Morse.
    I have no idea who is available, haven't looked into it. I'm just saying.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    The upside to both pitchers are very different though.
    I am not denying that Dickey is not a better pitcher but if you think he will repeat his Cy Young preformance you will be sadly dissappointed. My point is that if you believe Dickey is a steal at 12.5 per year plus your best prospect and another top prospect and then Dempster is a stupid signing by Boston you need to take off the homer glasses.

    Dickey is clearly the better pitcher but not by as much as some people here are making him out to be.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    I am not denying that Dickey is not a better pitcher but if you think he will repeat his Cy Young preformance you will be sadly dissappointed. My point is that if you believe Dickey is a steal at 12.5 per year plus your best prospect and another top prospect and then Dempster is a stupid signing by Boston you need to take off the homer glasses.

    Dickey is clearly the better pitcher but not by as much as some people here are making him out to be.
    The season hasn't played out. I'm not making preictions either way.

    People thought Bautista would come crashing down the Year after he hit 54 bombs. The next year he was even better. You never know what can happen really.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    just because it was a short term deal and only cost money doesn't mean it was good. these moves the Red Sox made aren't going to help the team win many more games than if they didn't have them. all it seemed to do is keep the Red Sox name relevant.
    it's times like this when the Red Sox are very unlikely to contend where I think it would have been better for them to give lesser known players a chance, players that maybe haven't been given a long chance to succeed. if these type of players fail, so what, the team wasn't going to contend anyway. so you would be talking about a very cheap player that could easily be replaced. but if it turns out this player/these players are successful it's a big win. could end up finding a player like the Jays did with Jose Bautista or the Nationals did with Michael Morse.
    I have no idea who is available, haven't looked into it. I'm just saying.
    I respectfully disagree. The Sox have a ton of talent that is on the doorstep of getting their shot at the ML level. What the Sox did was sign veterans that have had success in the past and have a reputation of being leaders and good clubhouse personalities. These guys weren't brought in to contend this year. They were brought in to change the culture of a cancerous clubhouse for the next generation of talent coming through the system. They arent there to help win a championship. They are there to help groom the future core of the organization.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    You do realize Dickey cost you 2 of the best prospects you have in your system while Dempster cost the Sox a cheque and some ink right?
    You do realize thatDempster blew his load in the AL right?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    The season hasn't played out. I'm not making preictions either way.

    People thought Bautista would come crashing down the Year after he hit 54 bombs. The next year he was even better. You never know what can happen really.
    And I will be the first to admit that I was one of those people. The difference is that Bautista was 31 going into that next season and although he did come close to repeating it he did come back down to earth somewhat last year.

    RA Dickey is 38. I am not saying he wont be good in Toronto but considering he has never had another season even close to the numbers he put up last year and is converting from the NL to the AL which is traditionally not friendly to pitchers all signs point to last season being a career year that he will never come close to touching again. I would anticipate an ERA around the low to mid 3s, 200 IP and maybe around 150 Ks.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    And I will be the first to admit that I was one of those people. The difference is that Bautista was 31 going into that next season and although he did come close to repeating it he did come back down to earth somewhat last year.

    RA Dickey is 38. I am not saying he wont be good in Toronto but considering he has never had another season even close to the numbers he put up last year and is converting from the NL to the AL which is traditionally not friendly to pitchers all signs point to last season being a career year that he will never come close to touching again. I would anticipate an ERA around the low to mid 3s, 200 IP and maybe around 150 Ks.
    That's still ace or close to ace numbers, and with the Jays offence, it'll easily be enough.

    Another thing is RA Dickey could be on the Jays roster longer than 3 years if he pitches like an ace during the 3 years or doesn't regress too much.

    In other words a second contract extension for a year or 2.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny_Powers View Post
    You do realize thatDempster blew his load in the AL right?
    You realize he made 12 starts in the AL his entire career right? But I wont just tell you "small sample size" cause thats too easy. In comparison Dickey has made 49 starts for AL teams before going to the Mets and never posted an ERA under 4.50 in fact most years was above 5.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    The difference is that Bautista was 31 going into that next season and although he did come close to repeating it he did come back down to earth somewhat last year.
    Just for the record, coming down to earth somewhat meant tied with Josh Hamilton for leading the majors in home runs with 27 while hitting a .378 wOBA and 140 wRC+ before getting injured. Not saying you're wrong, because that was regression from his previous 2 seasons. He had a bad month of April, similar to Pujols.
    Last edited by mtf; 12-17-2012 at 03:13 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom2010 View Post
    comparison forum
    alright take it easy thread nazi

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vampirate View Post
    That's still ace or close to ace numbers, and with the Jays offence, it'll easily be enough.

    Another thing is RA Dickey could be on the Jays roster longer than 3 years if he pitches like an ace during the 3 years or doesn't regress too much.

    In other words a second contract extension for a year or 2.
    I dont know if those are ace numbers but I wont argue what is considered to be ace numbers. I am not arguing that Dickey is not a good pickup for the Jays. My argument is that when you consider the difference in talent and realistic expectation of what they can contribute between Dickey and Dempster and then factor in what they cost each team its a little hometeam biased to say one was a great move and the other was stupid. Different organizations at different stages and personally I think both moves fill their teams need at a reasonable cost.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The Sox have a ton of talent that is on the doorstep of getting their shot at the ML level. What the Sox did was sign veterans that have had success in the past and have a reputation of being leaders and good clubhouse personalities. These guys weren't brought in to contend this year. They were brought in to change the culture of a cancerous clubhouse for the next generation of talent coming through the system. They arent there to help win a championship. They are there to help groom the future core of the organization.
    I still don't agree with the moves. that's an awful lot of money going to players that might not make much of a difference. I can understand bringing in veterans, but not at all the costs. Drew for example, IMO way too much guaranteed money for what Drew has been in the last 2 seasons. Dempster is another question mark to me. I think the Red Sox could have signed multiple other options that were veterans who could come in and eat innings who would have come in much cheaper. not that the Red Sox have to worry about money really, but I still don't agree with it all.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtf View Post
    Just for the record, coming down to earth somewhat meant tied with Josh Hamilton for leading the majors in home runs with 27 while hitting a .378 wOBA and 140 wRC+. Not saying you're wrong, because that was regression from his previous 2 seasons. He had a bad month of April, similar to Pujols.
    Never said he stunk. Just said he came back down to earth meaning that he was no longer putting up other wordly numbers like the 400+ OBP, 600+ SLG and 1000+ OPS her was in 2010 and 2011 when he was considered to be the best hitter in the game.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by StryderSox View Post
    Never said he stunk. Just said he came back down to earth meaning that he was no longer putting up other wordly numbers like the 400+ OBP, 600+ SLG and 1000+ OPS her was in 2010 and 2011 when he was considered to be the best hitter in the game.
    Yeah I know, I was just clarifying that his coming down to earth numbers were the result of a bad April like Pujols had and he was back to great by May (9 HR, .894 OPS) and godly in June (14 HR, 1.158 OPS). And then the injury hit.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    I still don't agree with the moves. that's an awful lot of money going to players that might not make much of a difference. I can understand bringing in veterans, but not at all the costs. Drew for example, IMO way too much guaranteed money for what Drew has been in the last 2 seasons. Dempster is another question mark to me. I think the Red Sox could have signed multiple other options that were veterans who could come in and eat innings who would have come in much cheaper. not that the Red Sox have to worry about money really, but I still don't agree with it all.
    You have to take into consideration that a 1 or 2 year contract at this point does no harm to the RedSox as these contracts will be up before the Sox contend again. Money doesnt become an issue for Boston unless it is money committed beyond 2014.

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