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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    I think people really need to get over the whole JP sucks thing.. yeah he is pretty bad on both sides of the ball but you really cant expect to have an above average player at every rotation spot or position

    We had the 2nd best 1B in the game last year in Encarnacion
    We have a top 5 SS in Jose Reyes
    It is safe to assume that Lawrie should at least be a top 10 3B this year if not better
    We have a top 3 RF in Jose (with Stanton and Heyward)
    We have a LF who finished 6th in WAR despite missing 50 games

    That is a top player at 6 of the 9 positions

    This leaves DH, CF and C

    I still believe Rasmus has something in him and could rebound
    Lind sucks but the offseason is still young

    This leave JPA.. I think we can totally afford to carry him with the lineup and rotation we have. It really isn't as big of an issue as people make it out to be

    Anything you get him is bonus.. and that means the usual 20+ HRs
    Well said.

    Rasmus was 8th in CF OPS before his injury. Just saying.

  2. #212
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    rotation is filthy

  3. #213
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    We have three question marks in JPA, Rasmus and Lind. If they can be average hitters and help out at the bottom of the order, that's all we need.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanyo View Post
    so I guess this changes the whole "no one wants to play in Canada" bit...just takes a bit of spending for players to want to be happy here...hmmmmm...
    And the whole, "we will always have to overspend argument"....

    Develop talent, parlay it into high end players, and then, other high end FA's fall into place. Heck there might be players calling AA to join this squad that AA is saying "doesn't fit into our plans".

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by bomber0104 View Post
    I think people really need to get over the whole JP sucks thing.. yeah he is pretty bad on both sides of the ball but you really cant expect to have an above average player at every rotation spot or position

    We had the 2nd best 1B in the game last year in Encarnacion
    We have a top 5 SS in Jose Reyes
    It is safe to assume that Lawrie should at least be a top 10 3B this year if not better
    We have a top 3 RF in Jose (with Stanton and Heyward)
    We have a LF who finished 6th in WAR despite missing 50 games

    That is a top player at 5 of the 9 positions

    This leaves DH, CF, 2B and C

    I still believe Rasmus has something in him and could rebound
    Lind sucks but the offseason is still young
    I believe Izturis and Bonafacio will do a fine job playing 2B

    This leave JPA.. I think we can totally afford to carry him with the lineup and rotation we have. It really isn't as big of an issue as people make it out to be

    Anything you get him is bonus.. and that means the usual 20+ HRs
    Not only that, but by all accounts he's huge in the locker room, a bridge between the spanish players and the english ones, and seems to handle the pitchers pretty well. He's not a big concern for me at this point. Get a veteran late-inning reliever and a DH now and I'm happy.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymfan87 View Post
    I guess now you guys understand why you had to give so much to get him, lol. 3 years/$30 million is absurd for a pitcher of Dickey's caliber.
    If Dickey manages to be an ace like or close pitcher for 3 years, than he's earning less than half than Grenkie is for around the same type of production.

    And who knows, maybe the Jays extend RA Dickey again on that third year for a year or 2 if Dickey continues to pitch like an ace.
    Last edited by Vampirate; 12-17-2012 at 03:53 PM.

  7. #217
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    reyes and dickey re-unite

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrForever View Post
    We have three question marks in JPA, Rasmus and Lind. If they can be average hitters and help out at the bottom of the order, that's all we need.
    gooood if we could upgrade Lind .... dream offseason

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRIUMPHATOR View Post
    For all of the advance metric guys. How would Pat Borders rank? I'm getting the feeling that you guys want all-star at every position. Not going to happen.

    Take solice in the fact that JPA is a good club house personality. I'll take him as my 8th or 9th hitter, with his OK defence.
    Except, his defense has not been okay. It has, like his bat (perhaps even more so), been below-average.

    I'll take solace in the fact that A.J. Jiminez projects to be a very, very good defensive catcher, with the ability to hit for contact (although he has no power to speak of), and he should be ready in the next couple of years.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johann View Post
    He didn't hit better than JPA in his time with the Giants

    In his 50+ games, he hit .219 / .287
    JPA hit .233 / .275

    Pence got on base more, but JPA hit better. Also, I included Brandon Crawford + Theriot in the equation.
    You're right, my mistake, I included his time with the Phillies at the beginning of the year. Still, his wRC+ with the Giants was 84, which is lower than Arencibia's, but not to the point where you can call one horrible and the other average.

    Brandon Crawford, despite being awful at the plate, is a very, very good defender, which is something you certainly can't say about J.P.

    Theriot I will give you. He was absolutely awful last year.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dol-Fan View Post
    Well said.

    Rasmus was 8th in CF OPS before his injury. Just saying.
    Just because the Jays have a lot of good players doesn't mean the bad ones should get a free pass. If Lind still gets crucified for his poor play I don't see why Arencibia should get a free pass.

    If Arencibia could be an above average hitter or an above average fielder - one of those, not both - it would be tolerable. But being below average in both aspects just can't happen.

    Gone are the days when the Jays should be willing to accept mediocrity. As exciting as these moves are, it's no guarantee the team will win, and throwing away at bats with Arencibia is costing the team. Nobody said they need a superstar, but they shouldn't be using a guy who is so terrible on both sides of the game. Find a defensive first guy, or find a legitimate offensive catcher. Not someone who fails pretty spectacularly at both.
    Last edited by Twitchy; 12-17-2012 at 04:05 PM.


    Vic Mackey: You better figure out how much you hate me. And how you're going to deal with that. 'Cause I'm not going anywhere.

    This sums up every sports interview, ever.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twitchy View Post
    Just because the Jays have a lot of good players doesn't mean the bad ones should get a free pass. If Lind still gets crucified for his poor play I don't see why Arencibia should get a free pass.

    If Arencibia could be an above average hitter or an above average fielder - one of those, not both - it would be tolerable. But being below average in both aspects just can't happen.

    Gone are the days when the Jays should be willing to accept mediocrity.
    There really isn't much better out there.. do you really want to pay Martin or Pierzynski 10 million a year? because that is what catchers are getting these days

    I mean I would love for us to sign Pierzynski to a 1 year deal but I don't see it happening.. I think AA is really content with JPA and feels like he can make strides

    I'm not an expert on defensive metrics for catchers but it seems to me that he improved in every aspect of the game last year and it is reasonable to expect that he will do so again this year
    Last edited by bomber0104; 12-17-2012 at 04:08 PM.

  13. #223
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    I cringe when I watch JPA catch, don't mind his pop at the plate but he can't catch

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dol-Fan View Post
    Then figure in that outfielders are relied upon to hit. Catchers not so much (though the Giants defied this logic with Buster behind the plate)

    Nevertheless, Pence was more of a black hole than JP due to position.
    Well, if they're relied upon to play defense, J.P.'s not doing such a good job of that either.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom2010 View Post
    reyes and dickey re-unite
    are they best friends or something?

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